Ed's Tone 2007/2012/2015

**CatchAsCatch** · 09.27.24, 12:37 PM

I've been listening to a lot of stuff from the last three tours and it seems to me like his tone changed quite a bit from 2007/08 compared to the last two tours. Not as dramatic of a change as his early tone to For Unlawful and Balance-era tone, but still seems quite different to me. The 2007 tone sounds a bit "rounder" to me vs. the 12 & 15 tours.

The 2007 tour is the only one I saw so maybe that clouds my perception a bit too. Also maybe the fact that 2012/2015 you got a major bump in tech in terms of video and sound quality so maybe that's revealing a more honest rendering of the sound.

Anyway, as someone pointed out to me the other day the sites been around for 25 years so this probably has been talked about 100 times already

but I'm curious, any of you guys that saw more than one of those tours noticed it?

**Jedi McFly** · 09.27.24, 04:27 PM

I don't think there was a super material difference, and in my mind I lump most of that era's tones together. But Ed did keep pumping the gain as he got older, including introducing the 5150 Stealth circuit by 2012. With more gain came some impact to the overall tone/eq. I just listened to a bit of an '08 show and it sounds a tiny bit cleaner and tighter, but was already super gainy as it is.

Aside from the Stealth amps and ebony fretboards in 2012 there were no other fundamental changes in Ed's rig between '07 and '15. The pickups stayed the same apart from a neck magnet swap by 2015. The pedalboards changed a bit, but always contained the same basics that were used for flourishes rather than constant tone shaping. But under that amount of gain I don't think anybody's going to be hearing the difference in fretboard wood or neck pickup magnet, so ultimately they're negligible deviations from '07-'08.

Even as close as they are, if I'm picking a tone I'm picking '08. I prefer the less saturated OG 6L6 5150iii circuit.

**Brett** · 09.27.24, 04:36 PM

Ed’s playing may have been really good in 2012 and 2015, but his tone was shitty. I hate that buzzsaw shit so much.

Honestly, I think the last great live tone had was the Balance tour.

**CatchAsCatch** · 09.27.24, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jedi McFly

I don't think there was a super material difference, and in my mind I lump most of that era's tones together. But Ed did keep pumping the gain as he got older, including introducing the 5150 Stealth circuit by 2012. With more gain came some impact to the overall tone/eq. I just listened to a bit of an '08 show and it sounds a tiny bit cleaner and tighter, but was already super gainy as it is.

Aside from the Stealth amps and ebony fretboards in 2012 there were no other fundamental changes in Ed's rig between '07 and '15. The pickups stayed the same apart from a neck magnet swap by 2015. The pedalboards changed a bit, but always contained the same basics that were used for flourishes rather than constant tone shaping. But under that amount of gain I don't think anybody's going to be hearing the difference in fretboard wood or neck pickup magnet, so ultimately they're negligible deviations from '07-'08.

Even as close as they are, if I'm picking a tone I'm picking '08. I prefer the less saturated OG 6L6 5150iii circuit.

Did they change the circuit completely with the stealth? I read other forums about it and people comparing them but never saw an answer to that. Just differences people heard or thought they heard in it. I know the added the resonance controls but always figured it had to be more than that.

**Jedi McFly** · 09.27.24, 05:46 PM

On the 5150iii the green (clean) and blue (crunch) channels share the same signal path and initial gain structure. The red (lead) channel is a separate preamp and gain structure. There's a fairly noticeable difference between the channels if you A/B the same riff. The Stealth made some modifications to the circuit to make that blue crunch channel more similar to the red lead channel. And as you noted they added independent resonance controls as well.

IMO that decreased the versatility of the amp, but only by a small margin. I prefer the less gainy and cleaner version of the original blue channel.

Per Howard Kaplan, lead EVH Engineer till retirement a year or two ago:

EVH Family Gain - with the original 6L6 100W as reference:
50W - CH 1 cleaner less gain; CH2 a bit more gain; CH3 same as 100W
100S - CH2 and CH3 gain both increased.
50W - 2x12; 1x12 - CH2 gain up significantly and similar to the 100S

**CatchAsCatch** · 09.27.24, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jedi McFly

On the 5150iii the green (clean) and blue (crunch) channels share the same signal path and initial gain structure. The red (lead) channel is a separate preamp and gain structure. There's a fairly noticeable difference between the channels if you A/B the same riff. The Stealth made some modifications to the circuit to make that blue crunch channel more similar to the red lead channel. And as you noted they added independent resonance controls as well.

IMO that decreased the versatility of the amp, but only by a small margin. I prefer the less gainy and cleaner version of the original blue channel.

Per Howard Kaplan, lead EVH Engineer till retirement a year or two ago:

EVH Family Gain - with the original 6L6 100W as reference:
50W - CH 1 cleaner less gain; CH2 a bit more gain; CH3 same as 100W
100S - CH2 and CH3 gain both increased.
50W - 2x12; 1x12 - CH2 gain up significantly and similar to the 100S

Good info. Thanks!

**5150rob** · 09.28.24, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by Brett

Ed’s playing may have been really good in 2012 and 2015, but his tone was shitty. I hate that buzzsaw shit so much.

Honestly, I think the last great live tone had was the Balance tour.

100 percent agree.... I listen to Balance era shows and go, "how the hell did he go from this to that" lol....

but then again I guess he was always searching for the magic sound and in his mind it was good.

**CatchAsCatch** · 09.28.24, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by 5150rob

100 percent agree.... I listen to Balance era shows and go, "how the hell did he go from this to that" lol....

but then again I guess he was always searching for the magic sound and in his mind it was good.

Man I know I’m probably in the minority but I never really liked the balance era tone that much. It’s the processing that bugs me.

**Brett** · 09.28.24, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by CatchAsCatch

Man I know I’m probably in the minority but I never really liked the balance era tone that much. It’s the processing that bugs me.

You’re gonna find yourself very alone with that one. That tone was a thing of a beauty.

**CatchAsCatch** · 09.28.24, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Brett

You’re gonna find yourself very alone with that one. That tone was a thing of a beauty.

lol. Yeah I kind of thought so. Probably should keep that to myself. 🤣 I agree with you on the buzzsaw thing for the last couple tours. It’s not even just that it’s super saturated it’s also kind of nasally.

**Brett** · 09.28.24, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by CatchAsCatch

lol. Yeah I kind of thought so. Probably should keep that to myself.

I agree with you on the buzzsaw thing for the last couple tours. It’s not even just that it’s super saturated it’s also kind of nasally.

Lol you’re good man.

You’re just not going to get a lot of support on this one. Haha.

**joezlo** · 09.30.24, 09:22 AM

07 - messy tone (or is it the playing?)

08 - a bit better - but we begin to see the possibility that Ed's ears are changing based on stage positioning and monitor

12 - Stealth guitar & head change everything (too much gain?) - but Ed's playing is more inspired

15 - My favorite tone of VH 4. ( I think its was the EL34 head that did it ) - best playing of VH4 as well.

I could be completely wrong, just my 2 cents.

Even Ed's "bad tone" is better than most guitarists best tone, lets not forget that.

**Brett** · 09.30.24, 09:23 AM

A big problem with 2007–08 is simply that Ed’s playing isn’t that great. So that’s having an affect on things as well.

**CatchAsCatch** · 09.30.24, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by joezlo

07 - messy tone (or is it the playing?)

08 - a bit better - but we begin to see the possibility that Ed's ears are changing based on stage positioning and monitor

12 - Stealth guitar & head change everything (too much gain?) - but Ed's playing is more inspired

15 - My favorite tone of VH 4. ( I think its was the EL34 head that did it ) - best playing of VH4 as well.

I could be completely wrong, just my 2 cents.

Even Ed's "bad tone" is better than most guitarists best tone, lets not forget that.

I definitely agree with your last sentence. His worst tone is better than my best tone any day.

But I kind of hear the opposite in that I prefer the tone from 07/08. Again, I think whatever i hear is probably a pretty minor differences but it just seems to me that the tone after 07/08 got fizzier and a bit more nasally (these are kind of not the best words to describe what I'm hearing but not sure how else to say it). Keep in mind I'm talking purely about the sound, not his playing (although I realize it's hard to separate the two).

Wasn't he still using the 6l6 stealth on the final (2015) tour?

**Jedi McFly** · 09.30.24, 12:24 PM

The 6L6 Stealth was his primary head, but he did have the EL34 prototype in his rack. IIRC Howard Kaplan said he did not use the EL34 during any shows. Chris' article here says they plugged into it every few stops.