Questions about Big Bad Bill (is Sweet William Now)

[Little Dreamer]

I rarely see this discussed, but it has bothered me for a long time, maybe 30 years.

When discussing Big Bad Bill, most people only talk about "hey, so sweet, Jan VH is playing clarinet solo with his sons, etc." Which I do agree is cool to hear ole pops VH, and see his solo is not un-Ed. You get that he influences Ed.

But I've always had totally different thoughts about Big Bad Bill. How come it sounds so GOOD?!?!?!

It's totally different from any VH song. It's an ole jazz tune. If you've been in bands, like many of us have, me included, you can't just give a double bass to your bass player, and then stick a mic in front of it, and it sounds like Michael Anthony on Big Bad Bill. You do that, it's gonna sound like shit, sorry. And here, it's not like they were playing songs like Big Bad Bill in the club days and backyard parties.

Second, AVH sounds really good on the brushes, but maybe that's easier.

When it comes to Ed, the myth of "Ed not reading music" is immediately debunked. Think about HOW. LONG it would've taken for him to lear the Big Bad Bill chord changes by ear! They were under huge time pressure during the recording of Diver Down. 100% Ed was reading charts during that recording. No other way. Even so, his timing seems impeccable. Remember, there's no protools, there's no copy and paste. They really played that tune.

Dave did a great job, but maybe he sings that kind of music in his shower, who knows.

Still, it's a mystery how good VH sounds on this song - no other band from that era could sound as good on a song like that. There hasn't been any report from Ted like "we had to do 87 takes to get Big Bad Bill to sound right." I'm imagining Ed is playing a Dobro on this? Again, this is from a time period where he says he didn't even have an acoustic guitar at home. It's all very strange.

[Number 47]

Always loved BBB. Critics of it surprise me sometimes. It's raw talent.

[Van Squalen]

It's no mystery.

A lot of folks don't hear it, 'cause of their metal roots, but VH is a pretty bluesy band, if you listen to the foundations of their Dave era tone.

Heck, I'd have killed for Ed, Al, Dave, and Mike to do a full blown blues record. I'm sure Dave would've loved that, but the Rat Salad-Crossroads Dutch boys, less so.

[Little Dreamer]

It's no mystery.

A lot of folks don't hear it, 'cause of their metal roots, but VH is a pretty bluesy band, if you listen to the foundations of their Dave era tone.

Heck, I'd have killed for Ed, Al, Dave, and Mike to do a full blown blues record. I'm sure Dave would've loved that, but the Rat Salad-Crossroads Dutch boys, less so.

It's not a slow blues number played a-la ZZ TOP.
It's a jazz tune played with jazz instruments. It would've been a great challenge on a technical level. It would've consumed A LOT of time for a song that's not a single, that would never be played live. It's not like Happy Trails - you can't just wing it.

[Van Squalen]

It's not a slow blues number played a-la ZZ TOP.
It's a jazz tune played with jazz instruments. It would've been a great challenge on a technical level. It would've consumed A LOT of time for a song that's not a single, that would never be played live. It's not like Happy Trails - you can't just wing it.

Jazz and blues go hand in hand. But yes, VH could be jazzy too.

I am, apparently, the only VH online fan on the planet who digs Apolitical Blues. And I do dig it.

Now wait a minute
Ayy, yo, my telephone is ringing
They told me, they told me it was Chairman Mao
Ayy, my telephone is ringing
And they told me it was Chairman Mao-ah-oh
Ah, mama, just tell 'em anything
I don't care, I just, I just don't want to talk
I just don't want to talk
I just...I just don't want to talk to him now
No calls, no calls

[Little Dreamer]

Jazz and blues go hand in hand. But yes, VH could be jazzy too.

I am, apparently, the only VH online fan on the planet who digs Apolitical Blues. And I do dig it.

Now wait a minute
Ayy, yo, my telephone is ringing
They told me, they told me it was Chairman Mao
Ayy, my telephone is ringing
And they told me it was Chairman Mao-ah-oh
Ah, mama, just tell 'em anything
I don't care, I just, I just don't want to talk
I just don't want to talk
I just...I just don't want to talk to him now
No calls, no calls

I have no such questions about Apolitical Blues. It's a I IV V progression, it's not a walking bass line, etc. It's a song that wouldn't be hard to play for anyone who learned Since I've Been Loving You from Zep while learning the instrument, or Cream.

[Edword]

It's not a slow blues number played a-la ZZ TOP.
It's a jazz tune played with jazz instruments. It would've been a great challenge on a technical level. It would've consumed A LOT of time for a song that's not a single, that would never be played live. It's not like Happy Trails - you can't just wing it.

Remember, Ed and Al grew up playing with Jan, not just listening to him play. They also gigged with him at paying gigs. They were no strangers to Jazz at all. It was in their bones. It's why they swing the way they do.

[Little Dreamer]

Remember, Ed and Al grew up playing with Jan, not just listening to him play. They also gigged with him at paying gigs. They were no strangers to Jazz at all. It was in their bones. It's why they swing the way they do.

Yes, I've considered that. They did "play on the boat" in the early 60s. But how long did they play with him for?

[MasterP]

I rarely see this discussed, but it has bothered me for a long time, maybe 30 years.

When discussing Big Bad Bill, most people only talk about "hey, so sweet, Jan VH is playing clarinet solo with his sons, etc." Which I do agree is cool to hear ole pops VH, and see his solo is not un-Ed. You get that he influences Ed.

But I've always had totally different thoughts about Big Bad Bill. How come it sounds so GOOD?!?!?!

It's totally different from any VH song. It's an ole jazz tune. If you've been in bands, like many of us have, me included, you can't just give a double bass to your bass player, and then stick a mic in front of it, and it sounds like Michael Anthony on Big Bad Bill. You do that, it's gonna sound like shit, sorry. And here, it's not like they were playing songs like Big Bad Bill in the club days and backyard parties.

Second, AVH sounds really good on the brushes, but maybe that's easier.

When it comes to Ed, the myth of "Ed not reading music" is immediately debunked. Think about HOW. LONG it would've taken for him to lear the Big Bad Bill chord changes by ear! They were under huge time pressure during the recording of Diver Down. 100% Ed was reading charts during that recording. No other way. Even so, his timing seems impeccable. Remember, there's no protools, there's no copy and paste. They really played that tune.

Dave did a great job, but maybe he sings that kind of music in his shower, who knows.

Still, it's a mystery how good VH sounds on this song - no other band from that era could sound as good on a song like that. There hasn't been any report from Ted like "we had to do 87 takes to get Big Bad Bill to sound right." I'm imagining Ed is playing a Dobro on this? Again, this is from a time period where he says he didn't even have an acoustic guitar at home. It's all very strange.

I've always loved this song (and album). It's well known that Eddie didn't like the album because of all the cover songs, but he never seemed to like this song either, regardless of the fact his father played on it, though Jan had an accident and lost part of one of his fingers. Eddie used to say, you should've heard Jan before the accident.

Two things: I don't think that's an upright bass, but one of those acoustic basses like a mariachi band uses. In regard to Ed reading music, I imagine Ed was just reading chord changes (say Bb Maj7, Cm7, F7, etc.). That's not quite like reading a chart where he's reading off of a music staff. Ed was an incredibly talented guy, I'm sure he could read a lead sheet.

[Van Squalen]

I have no such questions about Apolitical Blues. It's a I IV V progression, it's not a walking bass line, etc. It's a song that wouldn't be hard to play for anyone who learned Since I've Been Loving You from Zep while learning the instrument, or Cream.

So, you're basically saying Ed was the GOAT. Well, yeah.

[Number 47]

Yes, I've considered that. They did "play on the boat" in the early 60s. But how long did they play with him for?

What?

[Heisenberg]

BBB has always been one of my many #1 top favourite VH tunes. Absolutely sensational. I absolutely love it.

Alex & Ed are quoted in certain interviews & seem to somewhat dismiss & disparage the Diver Down album mainly due to the extra cover songs particularly Dancing In The Streets in a negative way which seems to me to be a tad bit unappreciative of Big Bad Bill’s truely magnificent performance & iconic placement in their catalog.

Instead of focusing on their negative perspective of Diver Down’s cover tunes God forbid they actually expressed a little bit of gratitude & joy about recording with their beloved Pop. Captured on record for all eternity. It should have been a celebrated highlight for them.

- Alex & Edward- ( Hypothetical quote)- “ You know we never wanted to cash in on doing cover tunes just to score a hit. Those cover tunes were Dave & Ted’s idea. The record company forced us to do them. We’d rather bomb with our own stuff than get a hit with a cover. We are musicians. “


- Alex & Edward- ( Hypothetical Quote)- “ You know even though we were ticked off being under pressure from Warner Brothers to rush recording Diver Down & ended up doing too many cover tunes there’s a silver lining that never would’ve happened if Dave didn’t suggest doing Big Bad Bill & having our Dad play on it. That was an awesome experience. Being in the studio with our Dad was a privilege and honour. All 3 of us are captured on record and long after we are gone that record will always be there and it never would’ve happened if not for David’s idea. So we owe David a huge debt of gratitude for that. Thanks Dave. “

Imagine if they said something like that.

Even little Wolfie could make a tweet or something. “ I just got the goosebumps hearing Big Bad Bill on the Bluetooth boombox. Wow. Hearing my Dad playing with my Grandpa & Uncle all playing Big Bad Bill from Diver Down is truly awesome. What a great tune “

[Naked Wake]

1. It's right up Dave's alley, vocally speaking. I know people don't like it when I call him a lounge singer, but songs like this are why I say that about him. Most of his solo stuff falls into this category as well, starting with CFTH.

2. I know Ed has always said he only played by ear and never learned how to read music (which is fine, considering music is a "hearing" art) but I thought he was a classically trained pianist since childhood? You can't be classically trained pianist and not know how to read music, unless he did that by ear also. The fact that his dad was a musician tells me had some notation knowledge.

3. Alternatively, and probably the one no one would want to admit is Maybe it wasn't really them playing it, just taking credit for it. If they've never played it live what validation do we have that it was really the 4 of them in the studio playing (other than DLR because we know it's his voice)

[I Coulda Hada VH]

1. It's right up Dave's alley, vocally speaking. I know people don't like it when I call him a lounge singer, but songs like this are why I say that about him. Most of his solo stuff falls into this category as well, starting with CFTH.

Yes.

2. I know Ed has always said he only played by ear and never learned how to read music (which is fine, considering music is a "hearing" art) but I thought he was a classically trained pianist since childhood? You can't be classically trained pianist and not know how to read music, unless he did that by ear also. The fact that his dad was a musician tells me had some notation knowledge.

EVH said a lot of things that were not exactly true.

3. Alternatively, and probably the one no one would want to admit is Maybe it wasn't really them playing it, just taking credit for it. If they've never played it live what validation do we have that it was really the 4 of them in the studio playing (other than DLR because we know it's his voice)

Lol. Come on.

[Heisenberg]

3. Alternatively, and probably the one no one would want to admit is Maybe it wasn't really them playing it, just taking credit for it. If they've never played it live what validation do we have that it was really the 4 of them in the studio playing (other than DLR because we know it's his voice)

Ok well now this is a comment I never would’ve ever expected to see.

On the net you always see the Laugh Out Loud abbreviations Lol all the time….

But right here right now…. I am actually laughing out loud for real.

Thanks. You really made me laugh out loud. It feels good.