Marc Maron WTF with Wolfgang Van Halen

[I Coulda Hada VH]

You prefer the Sammy era to the Roth era?

No. That was a typo that I didn't catch until it was too late.

[I Coulda Hada VH]

You just keep fighting it. Let go, my brother. You've sensed a change. Nothing feels the same.

Lol.

Sammy is my 2nd favorite singer in all of Van Halen history.

[Rikk]

It wasn't terrible, but I still grudge against the music industry that intentionally nuked itself, and that was the start of it. They killed careers of not only "hair metal" but lots of other rock and roll and put grunge over all of them, undeservedly.

Grunge did not kill rock and roll.

The fact is...SOMETHING had to happen. Hair metal was...really bad. It was SO commercial...but in a bad way. So generic. Almost every band looked and sounded exactly the same. By the time the older brothers and sisters who loved hair metal got older and stopped being the head of the young people buying records, their younger siblings listened to Poison, Warrant and all these other bands and said, "Uh...really? FUCK NO."

I know...because I was one of them. I remember having a conversation when I was high school...and a bunch of us LITERALLY said, "Do you want to listen to Soundgarden's RUSTY CAGE or do you want to listen to Warrant's CHERRY PIE?" It was such an easy decision.

Grunge WAS still rock and roll. But the industry did the same thing with grunge that it did with hair metal. When grunge started, there were some really creative, solid bands in the whole "alternative" scene: Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, The Pixies, STP (especially their 3rd album and on from that record)...

BUT...eventually, the record companies did the same thing with grunge that they did with hair metal: they started pushing 2nd and 3rd-rate shit bands that sort of sounded like the earlier, more creative "alternative" bands. They started pushing generic crap like Candlebox, Spin Doctors, Hootie and the Blowfish, Live, Soul Asylum. These bands were (for a time) huge. But they were watered down. They weren't vital. They didn't truly rock.

And THAT is when it started to fall apart. And eventually, when the really crappy 2nd-wave "grunge" bands came along (and sucked), rock felt stale...and then a lot of shitty pop music came to the forefront, like BOYZ II MEN and crap like that.

By the late 90s, pop music was it. Spice Girls and all that. Yeah, there were always rock bands...but the record companies insistence on pushing "scenes" was part of what did rock music in.

Also, the grunge bands refused to play the "commercial game" the way earlier successful bands had done. Some of the bands (e.g. Pearl Jam) eventually refused to make music videos. Pearl Jam also took on Ticketmaster. A lot of these bands deliberately made uncommercial albums.

By the year 2000, I remember looking at the music scene and all the shit that was on the radio...and I thought to myself: "What the fuck happened?"

[Rikk]

The Foo Fighters got famous because Dave Grohl was in Nirvana. That’s it. Kurt Cobain basically made two bands famous.

I talk to Foo Fighters hardcore fans. They talk about the Foos like they are the greatest band in history.

Again, I don't hate them. I like some songs. I like I'LL STICK AROUND. I like ALL MY LIFE. There are a number of songs. But...amazing, legendary band?

When you talk to these fans, try and ask them how many Foos songs are actually songs that everybody knows...the same way Zeppelin has KASHMIR, STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN, WHOLE LOTTA LOVE and on and on and on...

And the truth is...I think a lot of people like the idea of Dave Grohl...but can they really claim this guy can write songs the same way Page/Plant, Roth/Van Halen, Bob Dylan, Lennon/McCartney...hell, even Scott Weiland and the DeLeo brothers did?

I, personally, don't think so. But, hey...just my opinion.

[Rikk]

If you guys didn’t like the grunge stuff in the early 90s, what the hell were you listening to? You were still listening to shitty cheese metal? Good grief.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I remember there was this guy in high school who used to try and make fun of my friends and I around 1990 because we were listening to punk rock and also bands like The Pixies...while he was a hardcore Warrant fan. He truly thought Warrant was the greatest band in the world. He used to make fun of us...saying, "I can't believe you listen to this shitty music that no one else likes. COOL people listen to Warrant...and Poison." He was so hardcore into it.

A couple of years later, he was still listening to Warrant...but now, we were making fun of him. So many of our favorite bands were now the kinds of bands people were listening to everywhere. And he was still...listening to Warrant. Poor guy. He almost had to hide the fact that his Warrant CD was in his Discman...

[Rikk]

1991 was the year of Nirvana's Nevermind and Metallica's Black Album. They made their creators multi-millionaires. But Nirvana died just 3 years later when Kurt committed suicide. Metallica went on to become the most popular metal band in history. Jason Newsted still likes to brag that he's never had to work a real job and never will because of that record. He's still laughing all the way to the bank. James, Lars and Kirk own that bank!

In the short space of a few weeks...

Nirvana's NEVERMIND, Red Hot Chili Peppers' BLOODSUGARSEXMAGIK, Pearl Jam's TEN, Soundgarden's BADMOTORFINGER, Metallica's METALLICA, Guns 'n' Roses USE YOUR ILLUSION albums... All of those are among the biggest rock albums of all time.

All released within a few short weeks of each other.

It's quite startling.

And do people wonder why "grunge" never killed Van Halen? Simple. Because Van Halen didn't need killing. It was still good. No, I don't like them as much with Sammy. But Van Halen is an island. It is its own thing. It is its own greatness. No music scene (hair metal, grunge, 90s pop) was going to convince Van Halen fans to stop listening to that band...because that band is so special.

[Rikk]

And both albums suck. I'm sorry, I can't stand Metallica anymore. For years now. The Black album wore me out. I can't listen to it to this day.

Fuck that. Metallica are awesome. I still love them. They were a major part of my growing up. Still my first concert ever...and on Friday night, I take my daughter to her first-ever concert: Metallica. And she's excited beyond belief. She's 10...and she loves them.

Come on, man. Are you serious? Metallica’s last three have been killer.

Yes, they have. They have earned their legendary status.

And even you guys who don't like Metallica can't deny one thing: Metallica treat their fans WAY better than Van Halen does. I am NOT saying they are better or even as brilliant as Van Halen. I'm just saying they treat their fans way better. (Every show Metallica play, they post for free TWO pro-shot songs on their YouTube channel...EVERY show. That's just the tip of the iceberg. They release album outtakes for free to fans. Free concerts to watch...during COVID, they put around 20 pro-shot shows on their YouTube channel for free. I wish Van Halen did shit like that.)

[Rikk]

We were talking about Foos and how big they got. I was looking at Ticketmaster, and Green Day popped up. Holy shit, there's another one playing stadiums. I'll never understand this shit. Are they REALLY that great? They've been around, yes, but legendary music? Legendary shows? What could possibly separate them from other bands? Same question. Someone explains this shit.

I can't explain it either.

Green Day were a fun, non-essential pop-punk band who wrote a few catchy songs and were kind of a breath of fresh air for a little while.

Then they became fucking Queen or something...and it makes NO sense to me.

How the fuck do they sell out stadiums? They're...ok. But they're not all that great.

[Jamie M]

In the short space of a few weeks...

Nirvana's NEVERMIND, Red Hot Chili Peppers' BLOODSUGARSEXMAGIK, Pearl Jam's TEN, Soundgarden's BADMOTORFINGER, Metallica's METALLICA, Guns 'n' Roses USE YOUR ILLUSION albums... All of those are among the biggest rock albums of all time.

All released within a few short weeks of each other.

It's quite startling.

And do people wonder why "grunge" never killed Van Halen? Simple. Because Van Halen didn't need killing. It was still good. No, I don't like them as much with Sammy. But Van Halen is an island. It is its own thing. It is its own greatness. No music scene (hair metal, grunge, 90s pop) was going to convince Van Halen fans to stop listening to that band...because that band is so special.

An amazing time for music, it was such a great era, i miss it a lot. I had just discovered VH and Deep Purple so 1991 was all about those two bands for me, grunge couldn't touch the talent i was listening to with the back catalogues of the VH and DP

[Bad to the Bone]

If you guys didn’t like the grunge stuff in the early 90s, what the hell were you listening to? You were still listening to shitty cheese metal? Good grief.

There were so few rock bands that survived the 80s and we’re still making good music. You basically had Metallica who was on the verge of starting to suck, Van Halen, and I guess GNR. Sort of. Maybe if you liked Aerosmith and that 80s shit they did which I didn’t. But they were popular. I don’t know was Bon Jovi still pretty big in the early 90s? I guess.

I was listening to alot of rap music at that time (lol) NWA, Eazy E, Ice Cube, The DOC and some of the more mainstream stuff, I still listened to VH whitesnake...what the classic rock fans would listen to, Kiss's Revenge. A couple of hairbands that were still active (not many 2-3)

[ziggysmalls]

Metallica to me is Van Halen the way it should have been. I prefer CVH and CMetallica.,...Cliff Metallica. The OG. However post Cliff, they had good shit. They purposely made a commercial album because they got bored of their previous ways. Metallica really took off. VH simply did a pivot because they were so concerned with Dave and vice versa. Distracted the fan base. Instead of saying "Dave was great but we really like this too...." they created the culture which stands today.

James and Lars are Eddie and Alex. Control freaks who want to ruin the party. However unlike Eddie and Alex they embrace their fans. Release content. Kept relevant and all that.

Today as a 55 year old plus size male I will say my favorite music outside of VH is 90's music. Grunge, Alt Pop Punk, Pop, Country, etc all seem to have been great in that era. I know we cherish our HS memories but for me having money in my wallet and getting laid was a far better time than popping zits in HS. I guess I preferred living the life of Wooderson compared to Mitch.

[Dave's Dreidel]

I can't explain it either.

Green Day were a fun, non-essential pop-punk band who wrote a few catchy songs and were kind of a breath of fresh air for a little while.

Then they became fucking Queen or something...and it makes NO sense to me.

How the fuck do they sell out stadiums? They're...ok. But they're not all that great.

This, I don't get it either.

[Dave's Dreidel]

Speaking of Metallica, I didn't mind Load and ReLoad. Didn't like them as much as the first five albums, but I wasn't as invested in early Metallica as some of you guys, so I just took what they gave me.

[Rikk]

Speaking of Metallica, I didn't mind Load and ReLoad. Didn't like them as much as the first five albums, but I wasn't as invested in early Metallica as some of you guys, so I just took what they gave me.

As a big Metallica fan, I was initially very disappointed in them...but that changed.

Irony of ironies, I often put on selections from LOAD and RELOAD far more than other stuff from their back catalog at this point. I've grown to really like a lot of that material.

[Mama's Fool]

This, I don't get it either.

Agreed, and suspect had it not been for American Idiot about ten years after their heyday, they wouldn't be the legendary band they are now. Like Aerosmith they went through a period of some sort of unpopularity, but then kids latched onto them with American Idiot like Permanent Vacation and Pump did for Aerosmith.