Ed’s Rare Veillette-Citron Shark baritone guitar/Wolf and Matt

[garbeaj]

Wolf just posted a pic of the Veillette-Citron Baritone Shark guitar that me and my buddy Chris Gill from Guitar World have been talking about for months. You all know that Chris is the co-author of ‘Eruption: Conversations With Eddie Van Halen’ a true player and gear nut in addition to his many contributions to Guitar World and other publications over many years now. He’s regularly in touch with me and many others in the hardcore Van Halen fan community. At any rate, in a social media post originally on Instagram, Wolf said he’s just finished using it on the new MammothWVH record when he was tracking bass.

Anyway, a while back, Chris and I discussed the Veillette-Citron Shark baritone that we had seen pictures of with Eddie in the 5150 studio around the time of the recording of the ‘1984’ album.


You can read more about the Veillette-Citron company here: https://www.veilletteguitars.com/press_citron.shtml
Chris said that he would ask Matt Bruck and Wolf some questions about that guitar on my behalf when he was to interview them right after the Wembley Taylor Hawkins tribute gig. He also said that he would mention to Wolf that I and other fans know that he had to work hard to be able to play all that Van Halen material on guitar just like we all have to work and that those that say “it’s all in the DNA” are dead wrong. You can see Chris mentioning this to Wolf in this clip that you may have seen:



As you can see, Wolf appreciated hearing that!

Matt also answered all my questions. I had theorized that Eddie used this Veilette-Citron Shark baritone to write the drop A riffs on “Good Enough” from the ‘5150’ album. I further guessed that he came up with the idea of using a .60 gauged La Bella/Steinberger bass D string for the 6th string slot on the ‘1984’ Kramer guitar and tuning that low 6th string down to A so that he could play the riffs that he came up with on the baritone on the low strings and still be able to play regular lead on one guitar. Incredibly, Chris brought my theory up to Matt and he confirmed that my guess was EXACTLY what happened.

I was shocked to find that my theory hit the nail directly on the head! What are the chances?!

I knew that Eddie used the ‘1984’ Kramer on “Good Enough” both live and on the studio version from ‘5150’. But I also guessed that he WROTE the riffs on the Veillette-Citron Shark baritone. Incredibly, that’s exactly how it went!

I feel pretty certain that Eddie might have used this baritone on “Donut City” and the early version of “Good Enough” from the soundtrack to ‘The Wild Life’. I’m also guessing that Ed might have used this Veilette-Citron Shark baritone for the unreleased octave lower doubling of the tapping intro to “Hot For Teacher” that engineer Brian Kehew mentioned hearing when he went through the masters several years ago. Brian said it was very similar to what Sheehan and Vai did on the Eat ‘Em and Smile/David Lee Roth band version of “Shy Boy”. It’s also possible that Ed played the rest of the bass on the song using that instrument too, but that’s a guess. Again, Matt and Wolf have not specified which songs Eddie used the Veillette-Citron Shark baritone guitar on yet, Matt confirmed to Chris only that Eddie did use it on the '1984' album…these are just some of my guesses.

Anyway, as soon as I saw Wolf’s Instagram post on 10-23-22 (two days ago as of this writing) and Wolf says that he used the Veillette-Citron Shark and the 1963 Gibson Les Paul TV Jr. from “Dirty Movies” on the new album that day. https://www.instagram.com/p/CkEwmAVv...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y= I e-mailed Chris to alert him if he hadn’t seen it yet. Almost as soon as I e-mailed Chris, he spoke to Matt. This is the e-mail Chris sent back to me:

It turns out that me and Chris asking about that guitar got them thinking about it and they pulled it out solely because we asked about it…and as a direct result, Wolf ended up using it on the new MammothWVH record! Un-f-ing-believable.

Then, the next morning, Guitar World posted this story which many of you have seen already. https://www.guitarworld.com/news/wol...uitars-album-2

I just had to share this story here so that you could hear the full story in all the details. I’m honored to have been a part of all that went down!

[KS 5150]

That's really, really cool! It's great that you inspired them to bring out a long neglected guitar to use on the new album

[MF5150]

Nice to see he's actually using and showcasing them them as tools and not just as wall decorations in 5150. Awesome stuff, Allen.

[fudd]

Wolf just posted a pic of the Veillette-Citron Baritone Shark guitar that me and my buddy Chris Gill from Guitar World have been talking about for months. You all know that Chris is the co-author of ‘Eruption: Conversations With Eddie Van Halen’ a true player and gear nut in addition to his many contributions to Guitar World and other publications over many years now. He’s regularly in touch with me and many others in the hardcore Van Halen fan community. At any rate, in a social media post originally on Instagram, Wolf said he’s just finished using it on the new MammothWVH record when he was tracking bass.

Anyway, a while back, Chris and I discussed the Veillette-Citron Shark baritone that we had seen pictures of with Eddie in the 5150 studio around the time of the recording of the ‘1984’ album.


You can read more about the Veillette-Citron company here: https://www.veilletteguitars.com/press_citron.shtml
Chris said that he would ask Matt Bruck and Wolf some questions about that guitar on my behalf when he was to interview them right after the Wembley Taylor Hawkins tribute gig. He also said that he would mention to Wolf that I and other fans know that he had to work hard to be able to play all that Van Halen material on guitar just like we all have to work and that those that say “it’s all in the DNA” are dead wrong. You can see Chris mentioning this to Wolf in this clip that you may have seen:



As you can see, Wolf appreciated hearing that!

Matt also answered all my questions. I had theorized that Eddie used this Veilette-Citron Shark baritone to write the drop A riffs on “Good Enough” from the ‘5150’ album. I further guessed that he came up with the idea of using a .60 gauged La Bella/Steinberger bass D string for the 6th string slot on the ‘1984’ Kramer guitar and tuning that low 6th string down to A so that he could play the riffs that he came up with on the baritone on the low strings and still be able to play regular lead on one guitar. Incredibly, Chris brought my theory up to Matt and he confirmed that my guess was EXACTLY what happened.

I was shocked to find that my theory hit the nail directly on the head! What are the chances?!

I knew that Eddie used the ‘1984’ Kramer on “Good Enough” both live and on the studio version from ‘5150’. But I also guessed that he WROTE the riffs on the Veillette-Citron Shark baritone. Incredibly, that’s exactly how it went!

I feel pretty certain that Eddie might have used this baritone on “Donut City” and the early version of “Good Enough” from the soundtrack to ‘The Wild Life’. I’m also guessing that Ed might have used this Veilette-Citron Shark baritone for the unreleased octave lower doubling of the tapping intro to “Hot For Teacher” that engineer Brian Kehew mentioned hearing when he went through the masters several years ago. Brian said it was very similar to what Sheehan and Vai did on the Eat ‘Em and Smile/David Lee Roth band version of “Shy Boy”. It’s also possible that Ed played the rest of the bass on the song using that instrument too, but that’s a guess. Again, Matt and Wolf have not specified which songs Eddie used the Veillette-Citron Shark baritone guitar on yet, Matt confirmed to Chris only that Eddie did use it on the '1984' album…these are just some of my guesses.

Anyway, as soon as I saw Wolf’s Instagram post on 10-23-22 (two days ago as of this writing) and Wolf says that he used the Veillette-Citron Shark and the 1963 Gibson Les Paul TV Jr. from “Dirty Movies” on the new album that day. https://www.instagram.com/p/CkEwmAVv...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y= I e-mailed Chris to alert him if he hadn’t seen it yet. Almost as soon as I e-mailed Chris, he spoke to Matt. This is the e-mail Chris sent back to me:

It turns out that me and Chris asking about that guitar got them thinking about it and they pulled it out solely because we asked about it…and as a direct result, Wolf ended up using it on the new MammothWVH record! Un-f-ing-believable.

Then, the next morning, Guitar World posted this story which many of you have seen already. https://www.guitarworld.com/news/wol...uitars-album-2

I just had to share this story here so that you could hear the full story in all the details. I’m honored to have been a part of all that went down!

Bro, see if you can get the wheels in motion for wolf to use the 5150 Kramer on something. Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Simon Ribeiro]

Great stuff as always, G!

YOU are the man!!!

[garbeaj]

Bro, see if you can get the wheels in motion for wolf to use the 5150 Kramer on something. Lol.

Hah! And then I'll ask him to play "Panama"

[garbeaj]

Wolf confirmed that the tuning for the Veilette-Citron Shark baritone is A-A-D-G-B-E.

Which is the “Good Enough” tuning of course and I reckon it might also be the tuning for “Donut City”-I still need to check that. Which goes along with what I mentioned regarding the whole thing about the 1984 Kramer, the low A bass note with the bass D-string and all that which I supposed was him referring to “Good Enough” and it’s writing process as Matt confirmed.

Greg Renoff also told me that there was a 1983 memo to Warner Bros. that Ted sent them about songs in progress for what would become ‘1984’ which had a song called “Baritone Slide”. I’m willing to bet that was Ed working on “Good Enough” even then in 1983. “Baritone Slide” makes sense when you consider how much sliding there is in those riffs, but without an actual metal or glass slide…he’s just sliding with his fingers of course:



And then you have probably heard this boot from 3-24-84 of the “Ain’t Talkin’ ‘Bout Love” encore with bits of “Growth” and several riffs from what would become “Good Enough” later on where he is clearly screwing around with that A tuned low 6th string…

and as the brief ‘Lost Weekend with Van Halen’ footage from April 5-6 1984 Detroit with the “ATBL” encore, we see Ed using the 1984 Kramer with the original standard chrome Floyd, not the black one he would later (almost) permanently modify to accept the bass string (until he reconfigured it back to a standard chrome Floyd and gave it to Wolf), clearly at 4:51 here:
I don’t hear Ed using the low 6th string at all I’m this recording…he’s avoiding it and playing “ATBL” on the top 5 strings. I think he was already experimenting with that low A note in April ‘84 just as he clearly did in March ‘84…and he was using the 1984 Kramer as the guinea pig.

But at any rate, it is great that Wolf confirmed the tuning…and it is the “Good Enough” tuning!

[Jedi McFly]

That's some great detective work, confirmation, and deduction, Allen! Especially that "Baritone Slide" connection.

[garbeaj]

Here is a little piece of the interview I spoke of here earlier that Chris did with Matt and Wolf about the EVH brand that was finally published in the current January 2023 issue of Guitar World and there is a little reference to the Veilette-Citron Shark baritone, but much of what Chris and Matt discussed and my questions to him about that instrument were edited out.



Ed knew damn well what the tuning was when he recorded those tracks, but he may have forgotten in the intervening decades when Bruck asked him about it...

[joezlo]

I always thought the tuning for Good Enough was G##-Bbb-C##-Abb-Cb-Fb.

...

...

[rvk5150]

Very cool indeed.

This leads to me share something else ironically; maybe some of you already know this but I did not. Recently on the DLR Cast they had CJ Chilvers on who is the author of The Van Halen Encyclopedia; he spoke of starting a small blog to somehow continue with the book and create a second edition as he is not sure enough people will buy a new one in print.

Of course I created a free account and the other day he posted about Growth/Tank:

https://vanhalen.substack.com/p/what...al-with-growth

Very interesting.....again perhaps some of you knew this but I did not; I love this kind of stuff.

[garbeaj]

Very cool indeed.

This leads to me share something else ironically; maybe some of you already know this but I did not. Recently on the DLR Cast they had CJ Chilvers on who is the author of The Van Halen Encyclopedia; he spoke of starting a small blog to somehow continue with the book and create a second edition as he is not sure enough people will buy a new one in print.

Of course I created a free account and the other day he posted about Growth/Tank:

https://vanhalen.substack.com/p/what...al-with-growth

Very interesting.....again perhaps some of you knew this but I did not; I love this kind of stuff.

I think CJ is a good guy who has put a lot of effort and money into his book. He was just on Johnny Beane’s show last night as of this writing.

With that said, I think it is important that he considers the practice of citing his sources and evidence. I know that he believes in his mind that what he is putting in his book is correct based on evidence that he is satisfied as correct enough to justify putting it into his book.

‘The Van Halen Encyclopedia’ is essentially an alphabetized book of statements that the reader is asked to just believe without any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, presented with any annotations or references. As I read through the first edition and then the second, I kept finding statements that were just wrong, and that’s Ok…it’s an ongoing work in progress, but if the reader knew what sources and what evidence led him to include each entry in the book, it would be much easier to accept ‘The Van Halen Encyclopedia’ as a credible reference.

You have to be a paid subscriber to communicate with him as he makes specific posts or make comments on anything that he posts on that substack account. I’m sure people on this forum are in communication with him, and I would hope that any of you reading this could express to him the importance of citing references and evidence so that all the work he is doing in creating statements for the book isn’t in vain.

[joezlo]

Very cool indeed.

This leads to me share something else ironically; maybe some of you already know this but I did not. Recently on the DLR Cast they had CJ Chilvers on who is the author of The Van Halen Encyclopedia; he spoke of starting a small blog to somehow continue with the book and create a second edition as he is not sure enough people will buy a new one in print.

Of course I created a free account and the other day he posted about Growth/Tank:

https://vanhalen.substack.com/p/what...al-with-growth

Very interesting.....again perhaps some of you knew this but I did not; I love this kind of stuff.

I would buy a physical copy - it would totally be cheaper than all the paper and ink to print 2nd edition off line.

[garbeaj]

I would buy a physical copy - it would totally be cheaper than all the paper and ink to print 2nd edition off line.

I got the second edition for $0.99 cents on Kindle. I posted on that "Growth" post of his yesterday. I think he might be open to actually citing evidence instead of making statements without showing evidence, but he seems to be saying that all of whatever he is going to add comes from anonymous sources around the band who might potentially want to write their own book, so he somehow uses that as an excuse for not providing citations or any supporting evidence for whatever these sources might state...he just expects readers to just BELIEVE these statements...whether they are factual or not is not consequential to him for some reason.

I hope he understands that I support what he is doing, but I really hope he understands the situation. You cannot make statements without some form of citation or annotation to supporting evidence in a reference work. Greg Renoff knows this...that's a major reason why 'Van Halen Rising' and 'Ted Templeman: A Platinum Producer's Life In Music' are so important as definitive works. He doesn't state opinions as facts and everything he puts down in his books is correctly sourced and cited. And he didn't even call his books 'Encyclopedias"!