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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    My beef with militant environmentalists and the Left is why are they so bent on ridding the world of fossil fuels? Somehow I don't believe their motives are pure. They don't care about the environment. They care more about sticking it to big oil but don't they realize big oil will always dominate? They will own renewable energy too. You can't beat them.
    My question is always are they set to financially gain. Elon Musk is the richest dude in the world by selling electric cars, but not really. The US government has made him rich via subsidies. There are a lot of pro environmental policies that don't make politically connected people rich. How bout we implement those?

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  3. #107
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    "Bearing that in mind, is he polishing a turd - in other words, is he simply trying to spin a good light on a crummy situation...

    -OR-

    Is the President pursuing policy that will lead to inflated gas prices, knowing that it will modify consumer purchase behavior, leading them towards more efficient vehicles?"


    It's both. Western governments have been tryjng to get us off oil for a while. One way of doing is to create policy that will influence behaviour. That's a long term goal and probably a good one.

    However, those same governments are not interested in incredibly high oil prices since they are inflation creators and a nice way to get tossed out of office. That's the turd Biden is trying to shine. And it's almost impossible. So you try to blame others (Putin's inflation) and you try to change the topic (green energy).

    What's the alternative? Owning the issue? Can't do that.

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  5. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    My beef with militant environmentalists and the Left is why are they so bent on ridding the world of fossil fuels? Somehow I don't believe their motives are pure. They don't care about the environment. They care more about sticking it to big oil but don't they realize big oil will always dominate? They will own renewable energy too. You can't beat them.
    It's illogical; I don't understand it myself.

    While it makes good sense to reduce our independence on fossil fuels, electric isn't where it need to be, to be environmentally friendly. Here in the Carolina's, most electric is produced by burning oil, coal, or nuclear; it's shifting one source of pollution to another.

    The best alternative thus far are hybrid vehicles: great efficiency, zero compromise and drawbacks.
    "It wasn't Ed's playing that inspired me, it was his spirit. The playing was merely a manifestation of that spirit." - Speedway

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  7. #109
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    It's a religion. The Earth was pure, then it was tainted by man, and now we must seek salvation in the form of sustainability. Oh, electric doesn't really make sense in those terms? Ssshhhh, that's not what the scriptures, as interpreted by the Archbishops, say.

    This is why people think the Paris Climate agreement is a good idea. It has been stated it's so, and there is no questioning it.

    At the same time, Biden, in the speech, clearly also said he wants to work for the prices to come down, so there's that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    "Bearing that in mind, is he polishing a turd - in other words, is he simply trying to spin a good light on a crummy situation...

    -OR-

    Is the President pursuing policy that will lead to inflated gas prices, knowing that it will modify consumer purchase behavior, leading them towards more efficient vehicles?"


    It's both. Western governments have been tryjng to get us off oil for a while. One way of doing is to create policy that will influence behaviour. That's a long term goal and probably a good one.

    However, those same governments are not interested in incredibly high oil prices since they are inflation creators and a nice way to get tossed out of office. That's the turd Biden is trying to shine. And it's almost impossible. So you try to blame others (Putin's inflation) and you try to change the topic (green energy).

    What's the alternative? Owning the issue? Can't do that.

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    All of your points are well stated, but the main thrust - or at the least the hope I had behind my gas situation illustration - is to say that every thinktank has an agenda, a direction, a goalpost of something they hope to achieve. Like I said, I don't see malevolence behind every corner and under every rock, which permits me to take a neutral position when examining certain issues.

    A town in close proximity to me successfully revitalized her downtown, by hanging decorative lighting, encouraging businesses to stay open at night, tax advantages, hosting free music or movies on the weekend, etc

    Who was involved? The local businesspeople, local residents, the chamber of commerce, the City government.

    It was a conspiracy. Of whom? Everyone: private, public, etc., and it worked! Downtown Belmont NC is **booming** with activity. Job extremely well done.

    People like your Jewish laser neighbor are lunatics, who represent a statistically insignificant fringe.
    "It wasn't Ed's playing that inspired me, it was his spirit. The playing was merely a manifestation of that spirit." - Speedway

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    "Eddie may have passed, but he will NEVER die!"

  9. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    It's a religion. The Earth was pure, then it was tainted by man, and now we must seek salvation in the form of sustainability. Oh, electric doesn't really make sense in those terms? Ssshhhh, that's not what the scriptures, as interpreted by the Archbishops, say.

    This is why people think the Paris Climate agreement is a good idea. It has been stated it's so, and there is no questioning it.
    Seriously, is that what's driving all of this?

    Do you have any nuggets you might throw me, which would help me in searching this out?

    I'm intrigued.

    Why? Because no other intellectual approach makes sense: in the immediate Charlotte area are two nuclear power plants; nuclear waste is a nasty thing to dispose of. I've been trying to add the pieces together, unsuccessfully.
    "It wasn't Ed's playing that inspired me, it was his spirit. The playing was merely a manifestation of that spirit." - Speedway

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  10. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    At the same time, Biden, in the speech, clearly also said he wants to work for the prices to come down, so there's that.
    One other point of note: In April, Biden said he was going to release one million gallons daily, from the strategic reserves, for six months, to drop prices. That was in April; haven't heard anything since.
    "It wasn't Ed's playing that inspired me, it was his spirit. The playing was merely a manifestation of that spirit." - Speedway

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  11. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    My question is always are they set to financially gain. Elon Musk is the richest dude in the world by selling electric cars, but not really. The US government has made him rich via subsidies. There are a lot of pro environmental policies that don't make politically connected people rich. How bout we implement those?

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
    Not entirely accurate. Tesla isn't eligible for the US subsidies anymore. When they got started, they got some grants and loans (all loans paid back in full ahead of schedule - unlike GM / other OEM's from 2008). The zero emission credits they earn are sold to other automakers (Stellantis/Chrysler being the big one) - but that isn't paid by the US Government, it's paid by the other automakers (who are eligible for the credits - they just don't have shit that would be eligible for them). The credits were a part of their profit up until mid 2019, but in the last two years haven't accounted for much...and while I don't pretend to understand the differences, my accounting buddies have told me that they're recorded as revenue, not profit - so apparently that makes a difference?

    He also owns Space X - which is reportedly a massive money maker (but not public, so we don't know for sure).

    He's the richest guy because he took advantage of all that was offered - then grew the companies to be profitable on their own two feet; which is kind of what the assorted grants / loans / etc are intended to do.

    And, in regard to EV's, the government didn't arbitrarily decide to give out the $'s to Tesla, they were offered to ALL OEM's that invested in zero emission cars (be it EV's or Hydrogen or other unknown tech) as the #1 market for cars (China) implemented similar credits. It's a matter of time before the Chinese cars land on US soil; and by most metrics, the meaningful ones (BYD, Xpeng, NIO) are solid / good products. When they show up, and are $10K cheaper, offer (as most Chinese products do) a stronger value equation - GM, Ford and Stellantis will get slaughtered for share, causing a MASSIVE upheaval in domestic manufacturing (think what happened when Honda / Toyota showed up and where GM / Ford / Chrysler share went shortly after)....it was a preemptive strike.

    Most car companies have known for about 20 years (basically when lithium ion tech became proven w/ laptops / cell phones) that EV's are the future. However, their entire business model is built upon modest incremental improvements to internal combustion engines (and servicing them) - so they were dragging their heals in putting R&D $'s to EV's. Ironically (in regard to my comments about what Toyota / Honda did for domestic auto share), Toyota / Honda are about to have done to them from a share perspective as a result of Chinese cars what they did to North America as they've been even slower than GM/Ford to adopt EV tech.
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  12. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardv View Post
    That's a confirmed conspiracy. The western liberals of the earth want out on fossil fuels and no matter what the accuracy of the science is or is not and they have most of Wall St on board with it and even CEOs of BP and Shell who are rebranding to renewables. Its just a new way for the power brokers to make a buck or pound or Euro in spite of the technology not being there yet and the mining of lithium more polluting than drilling for oil.
    Yes, mining lithium is dirty and expensive. However, all mining is dirty and expensive. Manufacturing an EV is about the same (when factoring mining / etc) vs a traditional car (maybe a bit worse). However, over the life of the car (even when factoring how the electricity is created), an EV wins out each time. A Tesla Model 3 (closest to a mass market EV) becomes 'cleaner' to drive than a Corolla Hybrid after about 50,000 miles (assuming electricity is created by coal).
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  13. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDL View Post
    All of your points are well stated, but the main thrust - or at the least the hope I had behind my gas situation illustration - is to say that every thinktank has an agenda, a direction, a goalpost of something they hope to achieve. Like I said, I don't see malevolence behind every corner and under every rock, which permits me to take a neutral position when examining certain issues.

    A town in close proximity to me successfully revitalized her downtown, by hanging decorative lighting, encouraging businesses to stay open at night, tax advantages, hosting free music or movies on the weekend, etc

    Who was involved? The local businesspeople, local residents, the chamber of commerce, the City government.

    It was a conspiracy. Of whom? Everyone: private, public, etc., and it worked! Downtown Belmont NC is **booming** with activity. Job extremely well done.

    People like your Jewish laser neighbor are lunatics, who represent a statistically insignificant fringe.
    I think we're on the same page here.

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  15. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    At the same time, Biden, in the speech, clearly also said he wants to work for the prices to come down, so there's that.
    So what's he doing to bring those prices down? Talk is cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Most car companies have known for about 20 years (basically when lithium ion tech became proven w/ laptops / cell phones) that EV's are the future. However, their entire business model is built upon modest incremental improvements to internal combustion engines (and servicing them) - so they were dragging their heals in putting R&D $'s to EV's. Ironically (in regard to my comments about what Toyota / Honda did for domestic auto share), Toyota / Honda are about to have done to them from a share perspective as a result of Chinese cars what they did to North America as they've been even slower than GM/Ford to adopt EV tech.
    Like the music industry and digital downloads.

  17. #118
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    Just read that Hyundai is building a 5 billion EV production plant in Georgia. It's the future like it or not tho.

  18. #119
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    While the government is pushing EV with deadlines for auto manufacturing, they should be pushing for infrastructure upgrades to handle consumer increase. I Pity renters who donít have dedicated areas to charge an EV and home owners who are still on 100 amp service. I donít think I would feel comfortable knowing that I could only get 30-40 miles tops charging overnight with 120 volts.

  19. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Like the music industry and digital downloads.
    That's an amazing analogy! I wish I'd thought of it - but will use going forward!
    Winners come and go; legends are forever.

 

 

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