US Border and Immigration Policy

[KS 5150]

Wow, you really are a piece of work. Loved your bullshit olive branch PM and then you turning around and calling me a clown a day or two later...

Hey, Brook... tighten up, I feel a sneeze coming on.

You're truly not worth the effort. Throw on your red hat and hit the singles' bar tonight, maybe you'll find some MAGA nazi to hang with. That PM was a mistake but I thought I'd be the better person. Lesson learned. Enjoy your sneeze tonight.

Actually you're not a clown. Just a sad sycophant trailing behind your fearless leader.

[KS 5150]

That’s a lot of BS just to say you can’t disprove it.



What’s ACTUALLY funny is how you came in saying that Al Jazeera was a trusted news source. You never miss an opportunity to embarrass yourself, Doc.

I said something about Al Jazeera 5 yrs ago and you still can't let it go. I guess that's a compliment that you can't find something more recent about me to bitch about.

"Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now"

[Number 47]

You're truly not worth the effort. Throw on your red hat and hit the singles' bar tonight, maybe you'll find some MAGA nazi to hang with. That PM was a mistake but I thought I'd be the better person. Lesson learned. Enjoy your sneeze tonight.

Actually you're not a clown. Just a sad sycophant trailing behind your fearless leader.

OK. We've had our say. I'm going back to the thread subject more or less.

[bklynboy68]

I said something about Al Jazeera 5 yrs ago and you still can't let it go. I guess that's a compliment that you can't find something more recent about me to bitch about.

"Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now"

Oh no, there’s plenty. And it doesn’t matter, you still cry about websites while following far left wacknut nonsense.

Try again, doc

[lovemachine97(Version 2)]

So, back to the topic at hand, a three-judge panel of the Fourth Circuit appeals court has rejected the government's stay request. This decision is written by Circuit Judge Wilkinson, a Republican [Regan appointee] who previously didn't go fully along with the other judges in the case (which, I guess, has to be noted, these days, because otherwise we just say they're left-wing activist judges).

People who distill this down to favoring rapists and gang members over Americans, ignoring actual arguments, well, they probably won't ever pay attention, but maybe it's time to do so, if they really want America to be great. Because ignoring this ain't it. He pretty much eviscerates the Trump White House for reducing "the rule of law to lawlessness" & mocking "the very values for which Americans of diverse views...have always stood."

A taste:

"The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody that there is nothing that can be done.
"This should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear.

The government asserts that Abrego Garcia is a terrorist and a member of MS-13. Perhaps, but perhaps not. Regardless, he is still entitled to due process. If the government is confident of its position, it should be assured that position will prevail in proceedings to terminate the withholding of removal order. See 8 C.F.R. § 208.24(f) (requiring that the government prove “by a preponderance of evidence” that the alien is no longer entitled to a withholding of removal). Moreover, the government has conceded that Abrego Garcia was wrongly or “mistakenly” deported. Why then should it not make what was wrong, right?

...

"The Executive possesses enormous powers to prosecute and to deport, but with powers come restraints. If today the Executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home?

...

Now the branches come too close to grinding irrevocably against one another in a conflict that promises to diminish both. This is a losing proposition all around. The Judiciary will lose much from the constant intimations of its illegitimacy, to which by dent of custom and detachment we can only sparingly reply. The Executive will lose much from a public perception of its lawlessness and all of its attendant contagions. The Executive may succeed for a time in weakening the courts, but over time history will script the tragic gap between what was and all that might have been, and law in time will sign its epitaph.

It is, as we have noted, all too possible to see in this case an incipient crisis, but it may present an opportunity as well. We yet cling to the hope that it is not naïve to believe our good brethren in the Executive Branch perceive the rule of law as vital to the American ethos. This case presents their unique chance to vindicate that value and to summon the best that is within us while there is still time."

[Number 47]

Bring him home but vaccinate him first.

[bklynboy68]

Bring him home but vaccinate him first.

Yes, and maybe we can let two more courts affirm that he’s a scumbag so we can bring the total to four. Then we can stop pretending he didn’t get “due process”.

[jimmy812]

So, back to the topic at hand, a three-judge panel of the Fourth Circuit appeals court has rejected the government's stay request. This decision is written by Circuit Judge Wilkinson, a Republican [Regan appointee] who previously didn't go fully along with the other judges in the case (which, I guess, has to be noted, these days, because otherwise we just say they're left-wing activist judges).

People who distill this down to favoring rapists and gang members over Americans, ignoring actual arguments, well, they probably won't ever pay attention, but maybe it's time to do so, if they really want America to be great. Because ignoring this ain't it. He pretty much eviscerates the Trump White House for reducing "the rule of law to lawlessness" & mocking "the very values for which Americans of diverse views...have always stood."

A taste:

"The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody that there is nothing that can be done.
"This should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear.

The government asserts that Abrego Garcia is a terrorist and a member of MS-13. Perhaps, but perhaps not. Regardless, he is still entitled to due process. If the government is confident of its position, it should be assured that position will prevail in proceedings to terminate the withholding of removal order. See 8 C.F.R. § 208.24(f) (requiring that the government prove “by a preponderance of evidence” that the alien is no longer entitled to a withholding of removal). Moreover, the government has conceded that Abrego Garcia was wrongly or “mistakenly” deported. Why then should it not make what was wrong, right?

...

"The Executive possesses enormous powers to prosecute and to deport, but with powers come restraints. If today the Executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home?

...

Now the branches come too close to grinding irrevocably against one another in a conflict that promises to diminish both. This is a losing proposition all around. The Judiciary will lose much from the constant intimations of its illegitimacy, to which by dent of custom and detachment we can only sparingly reply. The Executive will lose much from a public perception of its lawlessness and all of its attendant contagions. The Executive may succeed for a time in weakening the courts, but over time history will script the tragic gap between what was and all that might have been, and law in time will sign its epitaph.

It is, as we have noted, all too possible to see in this case an incipient crisis, but it may present an opportunity as well. We yet cling to the hope that it is not naïve to believe our good brethren in the Executive Branch perceive the rule of law as vital to the American ethos. This case presents their unique chance to vindicate that value and to summon the best that is within us while there is still time."

Amazing that we're all not in agreement on this...as Americans. Due process is kind of important. But this administration seems to shit on the Constitution whenever it wants.

Like I said earlier, Trump has mentioned the idea of sending "homegrown" criminals (American citizens) to El Salvador. WTF. Maybe he can start with the FSU shooter.

[bklynboy68]

Amazing that we're all not in agreement on this...as Americans. Due process is kind of important. But this administration seems to shit on the Constitution whenever it wants.

The irony of this post.

[Number 47]

Yes, and maybe we can let two more courts affirm that he’s a scumbag so we can bring the total to four. Then we can stop pretending he didn’t get “due process”.

Go fund me.

[The Rover]

There is precedent.

Nearly 2 million Mexican Americans, more than half US citizens, were deported without due process during the Great Depression.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...iation-program

[KS 5150]

Oh no, there’s plenty. And it doesn’t matter, you still cry about websites while following far left wacknut nonsense.

Try again, doc

Please elaborate on these far left websites I'm always citing. I'm truly curious. It does matter when you're making that accusation. Fitting coming from the guy who posts from Breitbart, Epoch Times, Washington Examiner, Just the News, The Daily Caller, Gateway Pundit, The Federalist on the regular.

It's weird that I'm so much of a far left fan that I'm voting Conservative in our upcoming election. I guess being a centrist in Canada makes me a liberal loony down south.

[lovemachine97(Version 2)]

"Pretending" he didn't get due process. What crock of absolute fucking bullshit that is. You guys will twist yourselves into whatever pretzel shape necessary to try and bend reality to make whatever the Trump Administration does the right thing, even when the administration admits they made a mistake.

THE. TRUMP. ADMINISTRATION. ADMITS. HIS. DEPORTATION. WAS. IN. ERROR.

SCOTUS, unanimously, says he needs to be brought back, and you have to do it the right way. He had a standing court order to NOT be deported to El Salvador. If those circumstances have changed, and the government believes it has sufficient evidence to do so, then it must go back to court to get that order changed, in order to deport him. That's why they fucking say it was in error, because they didn't do that, which means he didn't get due process.

That's the due process he is owed. Just because you got due process once in your life isn't a catch-all for all other things the government wants to do to you. The courts are a co-equal branch that the executive has to respect. If you don't believe in that, and you believe the government should be able to kidnap you and boot you to foreign prison without due process and that SCOTUS should be ignored, then, again, I truly think you love some version of America that that you have made up in your head that isn't actually America. And you certainly don't want to make America great. If anyone is pretending anything, it's that.

[Daisy Hill]

There is precedent.

Nearly 2 million Mexican Americans, more than half US citizens, were deported without due process during the Great Depression.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...iation-program

We also rounded up and imprisoned Japanese American citizens and stole their land, homes and businesses. and during WWI a bunch of German American musicians from the Boston Symphony were rounded up and sent to camps because of someone claiming (falsely) that they were subversive for refusing to play the national anthem (which they did not) Actually thousands were incarcerated

Then of course the Native Americans. We didn't just send them to camps, we stole their children from them. Hard to see how we see ourselves as the upholder of human rights around the world, when our government has rounded up and locked up so many people who had a clear right to live freely in this country


Precedent does not make this right

[bklynboy68]

It's weird that I'm so much of a far left fan that I'm voting Conservative in our upcoming election. I guess being a centrist in Canada makes me a liberal loony down south.

Oh, so then you’re just trolling in the political threads. Gotcha.

Please