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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagerdave View Post
    Holy crap, you're right. I'm listening to One I want and it sounds like something Dave belongs on.
    What really got me is my listen through of "A Year To The Day;" with Gary in the mix, it sounds horrible; the playing sounds sloppy in some spots. Pull Gary out of the mix, and EVH's playing sounds polished...and it sounds like EVH wrote and played the song!

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerdave View Post
    After a few listens, it's clear that Gary ruined those songs. The music was fine. That's a real shame.
    The music would've been infinitely better with Hagar or Roth; the album would've turned out great, and the music would've been a success.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larsen View Post
    I don't want to get flamed for this but, with the vocals removed, it's clear why Ed was so upsets at III's reception. The music is really inspired and some of his finest writing. Also, whereas many early VH songs are predominantly a (absolutely killer) riff repeated over and over till the bridge and solo sections, the III material feels like complete compositions. They're far more complex. Without You is overlong and disjointed with vocals but completely epic as an instrumental and I cant stop listening to Dirty Water Dog and One I Want. That groove! Yes, Gary was a mistake, but the Ed's biggest mistake was pursuing a third singer at all. III should have been an instrumental album. I fully believe that's what Ed really wanted. Really miss that guy BUT hearing III as it was meant to be heard is like getting a new VH album filled with Ed's most personal and diverse music. For that I am grateful
    Excellent points
    "It wasn't Ed's playing that inspired me, it was his spirit. The playing was merely a manifestation of that spirit." - Speedway

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    Quote Originally Posted by NDL View Post
    What really got me is my listen through of "A Year To The Day;" with Gary in the mix, it sounds horrible; the playing sounds sloppy in some spots. Pull Gary out of the mix, and EVH's playing sounds polished...and it sounds like EVH wrote and played the song!
    I get pulling the vocals out of a song will emphasize certain nuances in the music you might not have noticed.

    But to say that Edís playing sounded sloppy with vocals but sounded amazing without vocals, makes absolutely zero sense to me. I donít even see how thatís aurally possible. Vocals donít change the guitar parts have been laid down to tape.

    Nonetheless, itís all subjective. I realize this. Everybodyís ears and perceptions are different.

    Iíve always recognized that song as one that showed off Edís playing ability. He rips on that track.


    And blaming Gary for VH IIIís lack of success is ridiculous. The music on that album did not sound like Van Halen.

    I couldnít begin to imagine Dave or Sam singing anything on Year to the Day let alone countless other tunes on the albums.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    But to say that Edís playing sounded sloppy with vocals but sounded amazing without vocals, makes absolutely zero sense to me. I donít even see how thatís aurally possible. Vocals donít change the guitar parts have been laid down to tape.

    Nonetheless, itís all subjective. I realize this. Everybodyís ears and perceptions are different.
    Maybe because the mix on III sounds poor to my ears, the instrumental version highlights EVH's playing to the extent that I hear different things. I can't explain it. The instrumental version sounds cleaner to me.
    "It wasn't Ed's playing that inspired me, it was his spirit. The playing was merely a manifestation of that spirit." - Speedway

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    To say Gary ruined III is a large oversimplification. Listen to everything Gary has ever sang on and there is only one record where he doesn't sound like himself: III. That is mostly on Ed, dictating to Gary how he wanted him to sing, and also to a lesser extent it is also on Gary for going along with being a yes man and not singing more naturally.

    The mix and production on the album also did not help or do the music any favors. I agree, without the vocals, it is much easier to hear a lot of the really great intricacies Ed put into these songs, and also some of the nice playing by Al that was somewhat unnoticed because of the murky production. Especially on Without You and One I Want, those two songs are really great musically.

    But, as has been said a million times by many people, what really sealed the fate of that album was teasing millions of fans around the world who were so excited at the prospect of the ORIGINAL Mighty Van Halen finally getting back together. If the intention was to never bring Dave back for good, then they never should have recorded the stellar two tracks with him or gone on the MTV Awards with him. Doing so meant any album without Dave was doomed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFVH5150 View Post
    Hey Jungle Drummer, if you see this, maybe you could be kind enough and see what VH3 songs supposedly didn't have Al on them? You can tell better on these of course.

    DWD and FA don't sound like it from what I can tell (just going off of his unique sound). YTTD and BOTB did sound like it, and obviously WY/OIW/FITH are yays and "Once" is a nay. Couldn't find "Josephina" which sounds like a nay anyways. And of course HMSI is his best work since "Hot for Teacher."
    I haven't listened to the DWD instrumental yet, but I've always thought that was Al and have never understood people saying it doesn't sound like him on that track. I dont know, like I said I havent listened to that one yet, so maybe the instrumental version will change my mind on DWD.

    To me, From Afar and Josephina definitely dont sound like Al, though. And obviously Once and HMSI, but the rest of the album I always thought sounded like Al.

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  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUNGLE DRUMMER View Post
    I haven't listened to the DWD instrumental yet, but I've always thought that was Al and have never understood people saying it doesn't sound like him on that track. I dont know, like I said I havent listened to that one yet, so maybe the instrumental version will change my mind on DWD.

    To me, From Afar and Josephina definitely dont sound like Al, though. And obviously Once and HMSI, but the rest of the album I always thought sounded like Al.
    I always thought he played on DWD, too, but after hearing the instrumental version it got me questioning it a little. Seemed like he would have done more with it.
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    MWM sounded different than anything that came before it, but came out great with Dave's vocals. Hearing the VH3 tracks as instrumentals just reinforces what a wrong fit Gary was for the band.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JUNGLE DRUMMER View Post
    To say Gary ruined III is a large oversimplification. Listen to everything Gary has ever sang on and there is only one record where he doesn't sound like himself: III. That is mostly on Ed, dictating to Gary how he wanted him to sing, and also to a lesser extent it is also on Gary for going along with being a yes man and not singing more naturally.

    The mix and production on the album also did not help or do the music any favors. I agree, without the vocals, it is much easier to hear a lot of the really great intricacies Ed put into these songs, and also some of the nice playing by Al that was somewhat unnoticed because of the murky production. Especially on Without You and One I Want, those two songs are really great musically.

    But, as has been said a million times by many people, what really sealed the fate of that album was teasing millions of fans around the world who were so excited at the prospect of the ORIGINAL Mighty Van Halen finally getting back together. If the intention was to never bring Dave back for good, then they never should have recorded the stellar two tracks with him or gone on the MTV Awards with him. Doing so meant any album without Dave was doomed.
    I love Gary. His work with Extreme is awesome and I think he's a great lyricist. He just didn't mesh with Ed from a musical standpoint, and having his vocals removed it's pretty clear that the music would have worked better with a different vocalist. It's too bad they couldn't work stuff out with Dave at that point, because they would have most likely made a killer record.

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    I went throught listening to some of the VH3 songs and there is far more potential than what ended up on the album. Granted I don't like the mix and production but I can hear Dave or Sam singing over most of the cuts. Still don't like the clean flange on Dirty Water Dog but remove that aside, its a VH song at its core. You listen to MWM without vocals and its less epic. You add the background vocals and its just a beast. Think if Gary had that song. Definitely wouldn't have turned out as well.

    One thing I don't understand about the whole Gary had to sing too high is that there are only so many good notes for a singer to sing in E, A, D or G which comprise a lot of Extreme and Van Halen songs. The tonic is still going to be the tonic in those songs and the natural resting places for other notes will be the 3rd and 5th. Its not like Gary was singing an octave above his Extreme voice. Its not like he was doing what Dave was doing on DTNA. Sure in Extreme he would sing in a lower register at times but he also sings high like in Pornograffti, Decadance Dance, etc.

    Maybe he came off a bit raspy but he still was singing in the register of his work in Extreme. Now melody is a different thing. His sense of rhythm and lyrical content doesn't work with Eddie. Sammy is different than Dave but they worked. This didn't. It would be like if Ozzy sang with Eddie. Likely wouldn't work and that is ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardv View Post
    Ed and Al on the G3 would have been monumental. Epic
    Being able to clearly hear all the dynamics, subtle accents, and creative fills by Ed and Al highlights just what brilliant musicians the Brothers were. A void in rock music now without them that will never be filled.

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    Thank you for posting these. I always wished I could hear VH3 without vocals!

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    Next I'd like to hear instrumentals of the 2004 tracks. I've always thought there was a killer groove hiding under all those insipid lyrics on Up for Breakfast.

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    It's amazing how much better DTMWLCD, Aftershock, and Amsterdam sound without vocals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JUNGLE DRUMMER View Post
    It's amazing how much better DTMWLCD, Aftershock, and Amsterdam sound without vocals.
    =VH=

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    Quote Originally Posted by JUNGLE DRUMMER View Post
    It's amazing how much better DTMWLCD, Aftershock, and Amsterdam sound without vocals.
    Ha! I just listened to DTMWLCD & Poundcake and totally prefer them as instrumentals. Actually I prefer them all... both eras as instrumentals. Fuck lead singers... get a real fucking job you annoying jerks.

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