Mick Jones looks back at producing Van Halen's landmark 5150 - Page 2
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  1. #16
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    Yes that was the story the band gave in about 86 or 87. Well Eddie I think said that so not sure if it was really true. I find my opinions or knowledge of the band to have been formed due to the fact I used to take Eddie's word as gospel. If he said Mick didn't do anything, well its the truth. If Diver Down sucked cuz it was half covers, it sucked. If he said Dave couldn't write lyrics, well Dave couldn't write lyrics.

    That said the talk at the time was that Eddie was a flake and WB wasn't going to risk the production of this different VH with Eddie being in charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    If memory serves, Mick Jones was WB's pick. VH said they wanted to produce it themselves, and WB was worried that with no DLR and no Ted, that it was going to be a shit show, so they insisted someone was there to supervise.
    In what may seem obvious to everyone but myself - LOL - since I am not musically inclined - I still can't get over the whole Mike Post thing.

    In watching Jason Becker's tribute to EVH, while sitting alongside Becker, Ed played 'Without You,' as he did play 'Me Wise Magic.' I can't help but feel that the Post/Cherone connection would've trashed Me Wise Magic had it been presented to Cherone, while I bet that DLR or Hagar could've made Without You a hit.

    If you listen to instrumentals of III, the music is quite good, and it very much sounds like EVH:



    Who in the hell installed Post, and why did WB go along with this choice?
    "It wasn't Ed's playing that inspired me, it was his spirit. The playing was merely a manifestation of that spirit." - Speedway

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    I was better qualified than Mike Post to produce VH3.

    That is one of the real head scratchers, especially since it was re-proven (for the umpteenth time) with bands like Def Leppard, Metallica and Motley Crue how much difference the producer can make.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDL View Post
    In what may seem obvious to everyone but myself - LOL - since I am not musically inclined - I still can't get over the whole Mike Post thing.

    In watching Jason Becker's tribute to EVH, while sitting alongside Becker, Ed played 'Without You,' as he did play 'Me Wise Magic.' I can't help but feel that the Post/Cherone connection would've trashed Me Wise Magic had it been presented to Cherone, while I bet that DLR or Hagar could've made Without You a hit.

    If you listen to instrumentals of III, the music is quite good, and it very much sounds like EVH:



    Who in the hell installed Post, and why did WB go along with this choice?
    This is a really an incredible piece of music. I do think Sammy could have done something really great with this song. (That is not to be construed as an anti-Dave comment. I just think that music is more suited to the Van Hagar style.)
    Last edited by VH1986; 07.12.21 at 12:29 PM.
    =VH=

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    Was Year to the Day the music that was supposed to be Van Halen's Stairway to Heaven?
    =VH=

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    Even listening to the music only, I fucking hate, HATE the guitar tone on VH3. To go from his tone on Balance to his tone on VH3, in just two short years, I mean, WTF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDL View Post
    In what may seem obvious to everyone but myself - LOL - since I am not musically inclined - I still can't get over the whole Mike Post thing.

    In watching Jason Becker's tribute to EVH, while sitting alongside Becker, Ed played 'Without You,' as he did play 'Me Wise Magic.' I can't help but feel that the Post/Cherone connection would've trashed Me Wise Magic had it been presented to Cherone, while I bet that DLR or Hagar could've made Without You a hit.

    If you listen to instrumentals of III, the music is quite good, and it very much sounds like EVH:



    Who in the hell installed Post, and why did WB go along with this choice?
    No, I feel the instrumental is good, maybe even great, but it's a terrible piece of music to put vocals to. There's nowhere to sing. It should've probably stayed instrumental.
    Little Dreamer

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    Quote Originally Posted by VH1986 View Post
    This is a really an incredible piece of music. I do think Sammy could have done something really great with this song. (That is not to be construed as an anti-Dave comment. I just think that music is more suited to the Van Hagar style.)
    I am much more a DLR fan than a Hagar fan, but I agree: III would've been a success had Hagar fronted that album. Yes...the songs were too long, but Post really shot that album in the foot. Instrumentals of III show the brilliance of the music, but Cherone didn't know how to write hooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Even listening to the music only, I fucking hate, HATE the guitar tone on VH3. To go from his tone on Balance to his tone on VH3, in just two short years, I mean, WTF.
    Much agree; Ed's tone on Balance was beautiful and warm; III introduced us to the buzz saw crap.
    "It wasn't Ed's playing that inspired me, it was his spirit. The playing was merely a manifestation of that spirit." - Speedway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    No, I feel the instrumental is good, maybe even great, but it's a terrible piece of music to put vocals to. There's nowhere to sing. It should've probably stayed instrumental.
    I have a hunch that Hagar would've structured the song into something more palatable
    "It wasn't Ed's playing that inspired me, it was his spirit. The playing was merely a manifestation of that spirit." - Speedway

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    Quote Originally Posted by NDL View Post
    I have a hunch that Hagar would've structured the song into something more palatable
    I agree.
    =VH=

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    The songs of 5150 are amazing on LWAN, much less on the album. The production was way too soft for a heavy rock band like VH.
    Imagine these songs with the production of Appetite for destruction...
    It would have been amazing for sure !
    I'm one of the people who thinks the VH disco needs a remix. And as OU812, 5150 needs desperately it !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed' View Post
    The songs of 5150 are amazing on LWAN, much less on the album. The production was way too soft for a heavy rock band like VH.
    Imagine these songs with the production of Appetite for destruction...
    It would have been amazing for sure !
    I'm one of the people who thinks the VH disco needs a remix. And as OU812, 5150 needs desperately it !
    Think about how much better would 5150 be if they simply used the production from 1984? Alex used Simmons on 1984 but the drums sound incredible. Obviously not the case on 5150. I have said for years it would be great if Alex simply went in and did a drum track using analog drums. Make a remix. I would love that Part of what makes VH3 such a bad album is the production. While I love 5150, I think the production lets it down. Obviously better songs, singing, etc but it would have been far closer to that CVH sound had they just tried to make the tones similar to 84.

    I think that's part of the issue people have with the Hagar years. The production changed and the CVH sound kind of went out the window. Instead of setting the bar, Eddie was trying to follow the bar with new tones, etc of that period. Even when he had better tone on FUCK and Balance, it was very processed. Sammy took the brunt of it but I put a lot of the blame on Eddie

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    Quote Originally Posted by NDL View Post
    I have a hunch that Hagar would've structured the song into something more palatable
    Both DLR and Sam have pop sensibilities in their song structures. They get there a different way lyrically and with melody, but both of them are about a pop hook.

    If Sam or DLR were included in the writing process as part of VH3, the album would be 100% different...in a good way.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Think about how much better would 5150 be if they simply used the production from 1984? Alex used Simmons on 1984 but the drums sound incredible. Obviously not the case on 5150. I have said for years it would be great if Alex simply went in and did a drum track using analog drums. Make a remix. I would love that Part of what makes VH3 such a bad album is the production. While I love 5150, I think the production lets it down. Obviously better songs, singing, etc but it would have been far closer to that CVH sound had they just tried to make the tones similar to 84.

    I think that's part of the issue people have with the Hagar years. The production changed and the CVH sound kind of went out the window. Instead of setting the bar, Eddie was trying to follow the bar with new tones, etc of that period. Even when he had better tone on FUCK and Balance, it was very processed. Sammy took the brunt of it but I put a lot of the blame on Eddie
    Completely agree. Production has been an issue since 86. Just my opinions, but:
    (You covered 5150)
    OU812 we know is too quiet and need remastering. Overall not a bad production. I like the sound of Al's drums on this album.
    FUCK they really went for it on this one but, to me, it's too thick and muddy. Seems as if they did too much producing on this one. Too many producers--sounds like they ALL got their way. lol
    LRHRN...see FUCK.
    Balance and BOV1 are produced well, especially when compared to the others.
    III is a disaster of a production (as we know). I've said several times, how the hell did that get released in that condition? I'm convinced everyone in VH has bad hearing. Never mind the actual songs. It's horribly produced.
    BOBW (3 new tunes) another disaster. Over production--way too many guitars layered. Alex is buried. Again, song-writing aside, another horrible production.
    ADKOT, I love the album but it could have been produced much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Think about how much better would 5150 be if they simply used the production from 1984? Alex used Simmons on 1984 but the drums sound incredible. Obviously not the case on 5150. I have said for years it would be great if Alex simply went in and did a drum track using analog drums. Make a remix. I would love that Part of what makes VH3 such a bad album is the production. While I love 5150, I think the production lets it down. Obviously better songs, singing, etc but it would have been far closer to that CVH sound had they just tried to make the tones similar to 84.

    I think that's part of the issue people have with the Hagar years. The production changed and the CVH sound kind of went out the window. Instead of setting the bar, Eddie was trying to follow the bar with new tones, etc of that period. Even when he had better tone on FUCK and Balance, it was very processed. Sammy took the brunt of it but I put a lot of the blame on Eddie
    Yep, Al used a combo of Simmons pads and roto toms on that album. I wish he had just gone out with the roto tom kit from the Jump video, and bulked it up with the Octobans like he did on both the 84 and 86 tours, but actually have them mic'd and PLAY them like he did on the earlier tours.

    Alex himself has acknowledged that the Simmons pads were a problem. But, yes, the Simmons pads sounded sooooo much better on the DD tour and 84 album than they did on the 84 tour, 5150 album, and 5150 tour

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