"Van Hagar" Guitar Tone Setup

[Synyster5150]

Hello all ,

So I have been trying to get close to that clean Balance tour sound Ed had but i'm not sure where to go now. I'm running Bias FX 2(for amps/effects) and the Eventide Micropitch plugin through CakeWalk(a DAW) and then out through my THR10X.

I created 3 different tracks, a left/center/right. I have my left panned 100% to the left w/ +9c 10ms on the micropitch, the center is just the dry amp sound panned dead center, and the right is panned 100% to the right w/ -9c 0ms on the micropitch.

The problem is, i'm playing them all through one amp, and it all sounds jumbled, and overly chorus(y). What would be one way to fix it or at least make it sound better? Could I do just one track with the amp and micropitch, or would you just use one dry/one wet like Ed said he did for recording Balance.

I would love to run through my EVH 5150 lll combo but have no effects pedals, so that's out of the question.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[Synyster5150]

Hello all ,

So I have been trying to get close to that clean Balance tour sound Ed had but i'm not sure where to go now. I'm running Bias FX 2(for amps/effects) and the Eventide Micropitch plugin through CakeWalk(a DAW) and then out through my THR10X.

I created 3 different tracks, a left/center/right. I have my left panned 100% to the left w/ +9c 10ms on the micropitch, the center is just the dry amp sound panned dead center, and the right is panned 100% to the right w/ -9c 0ms on the micropitch.

The problem is, i'm playing them all through one amp, and it all sounds jumbled, and overly chorus(y). What would be one way to fix it or at least make it sound better? Could I do just one track with the amp and micropitch, or would you just use one dry/one wet like Ed said he did for recording Balance.

I would love to run through my EVH 5150 lll combo but have no effects pedals, so that's out of the question.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

This is a picture of the general view.


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[iplayguitaralot]

Turn your wet mix down. I don’t know if your plug-ins can do it man, that sound is kind of defined by mixing in a pure amp tone with the effects. Ed used a rane sm26 to do it. Just running wet through the effects makes it sound mashed up, the trick is the clean signal mixed in from the amp. I’d say the center is less important for your particular set up, try just left and right stereo, turning the wet mix down until it sounds passible. Then if you want, turn the center on again and mix in a little dry. I just run stereo left right on a computer, it’s easier to deal with and the effects seem to sound better. Wet dry wet was more of a live trick I think. I’m not sure if Edward ran his touring rig to record balance, it’s more believable he tracked one dry cabinet for his takes and then applied the micropitch left and right and other time based effects in post production. To me, it sounds like one guitar track hard panned left and right with micropitch mixed in on top. In your situation it would probably be at a 30-40% wet mix.

For delay take a look at Edward Roland sde3000 settings, I think it’s worth playing with that as well. Chain it after the micropitch. What you are going for is one non time based track mixed in with a full time based effects track. So maybe try 4 tracks, one guitar dry left, one guitar wet left, mix them in a bus, and do the same for the right. So each left and right has a dry and effects guitar channel. Then mix to ear.

Hope my rambling helped.

[Synyster5150]

Thank You, i will try this.

When you say my wet mix, do you mean the mix on the micropitch?

I’m quite new to the DAW, but i do not see anything that leads me to believe I can mix or adjust the mix of two tracks together that arent pre recorded. I can adjust the output of each of the tracks as in what dB it comes out at. But thats all I see.

[iplayguitaralot]

Thank You, i will try this.

When you say my wet mix, do you mean the mix on the micropitch?

I’m quite new to the DAW, but i do not see anything that leads me to believe I can mix or adjust the mix of two tracks together that arent pre recorded. I can adjust the output of each of the tracks as in what dB it comes out at. But thats all I see.

Yeah the mix on the micropitch. I’m not sure what daw but you should be able to route your guitar input to multiple tracks and have them on monitor so you can hear it. If you set up 4 tracks that monitor your guitar input, hard pan 2 tracks left and right, and set your effects on one of each of those left and right tracks, you could run the effect on 100% wet and “mix” it into the dry signal with the faders. If that makes sense and if you can have 4 tracks monitoring your guitar input.

[Synyster5150]

Oh, i completely understand now

. CakeWalk just doesnt have a way to mix incoming signals together. You can just adjust them one by one as far as I can tell.

But thank you! I will be looking for a way to mix them tonight.

[iplayguitaralot]

When you adjust them one by one you are “mixing” them, you just go by ear. I would probably set the dry signal 6db lower then the wet mix and adjust from there. The phasing shouldn’t be so bad if you have the channel where your micropitch is set to 100% wet. If you set up the delay using Edwards settings from his sde 3000 you should be good to go as far as the space goes.

Cakewalk has true stereo pan right? That’s what you want.

[Synyster5150]

When you adjust them one by one you are “mixing” them, you just go by ear. I would probably set the dry signal 6db lower then the wet mix and adjust from there. The phasing shouldn’t be so bad if you have the channel where your micropitch is set to 100% wet. If you set up the delay using Edwards settings from his sde 3000 you should be good to go as far as the space goes.

So would you continue to do the wet sides how its just detuning -9 on the left and +9 on the right? Or would you do +/- 9 on both sides?

[iplayguitaralot]

So would you continue to do the wet sides how its just detuning -9 on the left and +9 on the right? Or would you do +/- 9 on both sides?

The eventide micropitch needs to be +9 10ms left -9 32.7 ms right.

Left delay is 398ms feedback 30% right delay is 798ms feedback 20%. Mix to taste, if you put it on the same channel as the micropitch play with it from like 10-30% effects mix. Remember to set micropitch to 100% wet. The delay adds necessary space so the dry signal punches through while the micropitched delayed signal wraps around you. It’s trippy and it’s best when you can hear it loud, it’s like your guitar is a synth with 8 voices.

[Brett]

OK I’ve done it with Guitar Rig 5 and you don’t want to dry signal to be very loud in this scenario. Like has been said, this is really meant to be done with a real amp setup. Also don’t go crazy with the effects, I think I put a little reverb on the right side and I leave the left side with nothing except the pitch shift on it. Same goes for the dry channel. No effect.

[Brett]

I also don’t have any kind of harmonizer, I just use the Logic Pro built-in pitch shifter and it works.

[iplayguitaralot]

So would you continue to do the wet sides how its just detuning -9 on the left and +9 on the right? Or would you do +/- 9 on both sides?

OK I’ve done it with Guitar Rig 5 and you don’t want to dry signal to be very loud in this scenario. Like has been said, this is really meant to be done with a real amp setup. Also don’t go crazy with the effects, I think I put a little reverb on the right side and I leave the left side with nothing except the pitch shift on it. Same goes for the dry channel. No effect.

The effects tricks are much, much more impressive through an amp set up, with a head slaved to a Palmer and the line out fed to a mixer. If you have a pure analog path to mix into the digital effects you get a punchy, huge sound even just in stereo. It’s nearly pointless to run the dry cab unless you are in a legit stadium. I’ve found a pretty endless smile just messing around with 2 4x12s in stereo.

Soundtoys microshift is pretty good if you want the eventide vibe. Any pitch shifter will do it though if you know how to set it up. Those settings I posted are from the actual H3000, and the delay settings from the 2015 tour. I think the delay settings are probably good from when he started using the SDEs, they are certainly good setting that keep it sounding clear and huge.

[Synyster5150]

The effects tricks are much, much more impressive through an amp set up, with a head slaved to a Palmer and the line out fed to a mixer. If you have a pure analog path to mix into the digital effects you get a punchy, huge sound even just in stereo. It’s nearly pointless to run the dry cab unless you are in a legit stadium. I’ve found a pretty endless smile just messing around with 2 4x12s in stereo.

Soundtoys microshift is pretty good if you want the eventide vibe. Any pitch shifter will do it though if you know how to set it up. Those settings I posted are from the actual H3000, and the delay settings from the 2015 tour. I think the delay settings are probably good from when he started using the SDEs, they are certainly good setting that keep it sounding clear and huge.

Alright so, i put the left side tracks on “Bus 1” and the right side tracks on “Bus 2”.

There is a way to add effects to the bus after the individual track instead of on individual tracks, of that makes sense. Would you put the micropitch on the bus and not the track so yhat it comes after? Or no.

[iplayguitaralot]

So would you continue to do the wet sides how its just detuning -9 on the left and +9 on the right? Or would you do +/- 9 on both sides?

Alright so, i put the left side tracks on “Bus 1” and the right side tracks on “Bus 2”.

There is a way to add effects to the bus after the individual track instead of on individual tracks, of that makes sense. Would you put the micropitch on the bus and not the track so yhat it comes after? Or no.

I don’t think I would even use the bus man, I think I would just make 4 tracks, hard pan 2 left, 2 right, and put the effects on one of the left and right tracks. Set your faders to like -12db on each channel you have made, and then adjust each channels volume to taste until it sounds huge. Make sure it doesn’t clip or it will sound like shit.

[Synyster5150]

I don’t think I would even use the bus man, I think I would just make 4 tracks, hard pan 2 left, 2 right, and put the effects on one of the left and right tracks. Set your faders to like -12db on each channel you have made, and then adjust each channels volume to taste until it sounds huge. Make sure it doesn’t clip or it will sound like shit.

Alright, thank you very much!