Atomic Punk Phaser part.

[rurbaniak]

So, I'm just trying to figure out how to do it more authentically. I know he engages phaser and rubs his hand along the strings to get the effect. But the faster part of it, I saw back in the day on a Curt Mitchell video he said that Ed would use a Delay pedal with fast slap back and engages it to get that doubling/fast part of it and then turn it off.
I never had a delay and phaser at the same time, only have a Phaser now, so never could try that. Has anyone ever did that? And tried it a software implementation instead? I have a Spark Amp and couldn't really get anything dialed in to create that.

Also, the phaser part right before the solo, it's different. Is he just doing some crazy pick slide on the high strings with the phaser on?

[danielleesale]

I always thought the only thing questionable about it was the amount of drive he was getting in order to get it to sound that way with his Plexi, and it was because his Echoplex had a preamp in it that bumped the gain up a little bit.

[garbeaj]

So, I'm just trying to figure out how to do it more authentically. I know he engages phaser and rubs his hand along the strings to get the effect. But the faster part of it, I saw back in the day on a Curt Mitchell video he said that Ed would use a Delay pedal with fast slap back and engages it to get that doubling/fast part of it and then turn it off.
I never had a delay and phaser at the same time, only have a Phaser now, so never could try that. Has anyone ever did that? And tried it a software implementation instead? I have a Spark Amp and couldn't really get anything dialed in to create that.

Also, the phaser part right before the solo, it's different. Is he just doing some crazy pick slide on the high strings with the phaser on?

Curt Mitchell was wrong about the delay being used for the double time parts of that motif. Eddie is just rubbing the heel of his hand double time for that part. Live footage from ‘78, the very close up footage from 5150 studios in 2006 and the footage from the reunion tours confirms this.

The part before the solo is the same except he used the MXR Flanger with his usual settings instead of the MXR Phase 90. When Eddie played those rubbing effects live he would use the Flanger at will AND the Phase 90 at the same time.

[garbeaj]

I always thought the only thing questionable about it was the amount of drive he was getting in order to get it to sound that way with his Plexi, and it was because his Echoplex had a preamp in it that bumped the gain up a little bit.

The Echoplex doesn’t bump the gain, but it shapes the sound almost like an equalizer. There is a very slight gain boost, but it is negligible...the secret to the Echoplex preamp is that it is a “tone shaper” rather than a boost. Brian Kehew explained this in his recent Sunset Sound interviews and Dave Friedman confirms this.

[turnbuckle]

So, I'm just trying to figure out how to do it more authentically. I know he engages phaser and rubs his hand along the strings to get the effect. But the faster part of it, I saw back in the day on a Curt Mitchell video he said that Ed would use a Delay pedal with fast slap back and engages it to get that doubling/fast part of it and then turn it off.
I never had a delay and phaser at the same time, only have a Phaser now, so never could try that. Has anyone ever did that? And tried it a software implementation instead? I have a Spark Amp and couldn't really get anything dialed in to create that.

Also, the phaser part right before the solo, it's different. Is he just doing some crazy pick slide on the high strings with the phaser on?

The Atomic Punk song does have a short slapback delay throughout.
The intro is Phase 90 with the karate chop type hand saw action, with a few spazz out moments thrown in.
The break after the first chorus is the Flanger, with the hand sawing again.
The break before the solo is the Flanger again, this time with edge of the pick, sawing on the strings.
The Phase 90 is on for the whole solo, but turned off just for the 5 hard chords at the end of it, and then immediately turned on again, for the final intro to the last verse.
The Phase 90 is on during the ringing open strings/descending chords near the ending, but then turned off for the 5 hard chords, prior to the ending.

[rurbaniak]

Curt Mitchell was wrong about the delay being used for the double time parts of that motif. Eddie is just rubbing the heel of his hand double time for that part. Live footage from ‘78, the very close up footage from 5150 studios in 2006 and the footage from the reunion tours confirms this.

The part before the solo is the same except he used the MXR Flanger with his usual settings instead of the MXR Phase 90. When Eddie played those rubbing effects live he would use the Flanger at will AND the Phase 90 at the same time.

Thank you. I lived the lie of the Curt Mitchell delay pedal for 25 years. Ugh. Lol. I never saw anyone do it that way though!!

[rurbaniak]

The Atomic Punk song does have a short slapback delay throughout.
The intro is Phase 90 with the karate chop type hand saw action, with a few spazz out moments thrown in.
The break after the first chorus is the Flanger, with the hand sawing again.
The break before the solo is the Flanger again, this time with edge of the pick, sawing on the strings.
The Phase 90 is on for the whole solo, but turned off just for the 5 hard chords at the end of it, and then immediately turned on again, for the final intro to the last verse.
The Phase 90 is on during the ringing open strings/descending chords near the ending, but then turned off for the 5 hard chords, prior to the ending.

Nice breakdown, thanks!

[ATONESIR]

The Echoplex doesn’t bump the gain, but it shapes the sound almost like an equalizer. There is a very slight gain boost, but it is negligible...the secret to the Echoplex preamp is that it is a “tone shaper” rather than a boost. Brian Kehew explained this in his recent Sunset Sound interviews and Dave Friedman confirms this.

The guys on you tube that do all the pedal discussion go into detail about the preamp on the tape delays. You can buy just the preamp from echoplex as a mini pedal.

[garbeaj]

The guys on you tube that do all the pedal discussion go into detail about the preamp on the tape delays. You can buy just the preamp from echoplex as a mini pedal.

I know...I bought the Dunlop/MXR Echoplex Delay, the Pre-Amp and the Tap Tempo switch as soon as it came out. I’ve also played through original EP-3 Echoplexes. I also have two vintage Univox EC-80 A echo units which were for a certainty used on “Eruption”.

If you are new to some of the people that really know the gear and the sessions, I highly recommend that you watch Pete Thorn and Dave Friedman’s excellent “Deep Dive” into the first album tone YouTube clip and Brian Kehew’s excellent interviews on the Sunset Sound YouTube channel. Dave Friedman explains the fact that the Echoplex preamp is more of a tone shaper than a boost. He knows what he’s talking about. The Dunlop Echoplex pre-amp can be set as a boost with a certain db level of gain or it can be set for a level that is comparable with the REAL Echoplex EP-3 preamp which is a non-adjustable tone shaper-not a boost, exactly as Dave Friedman describes.

[turnbuckle]

I know...I bought the Dunlop/MXR Echoplex Delay, the Pre-Amp and the Tap Tempo switch as soon as it came out. I’ve also played through original EP-3 Echoplexes. I also have two vintage Univox EC-80 A echo units which were for a certainty used on “Eruption”.

If you are new to some of the people that really know the gear and the sessions, I highly recommend that you watch Pete Thorn and Dave Friedman’s excellent “Deep Dive” into the first album tone YouTube clip and Brian Kehew’s excellent interviews on the Sunset Sound YouTube channel. Dave Friedman explains the fact that the Echoplex preamp is more of a tone shaper than a boost. He knows what he’s talking about. The Dunlop Echoplex pre-amp can be set as a boost with a certain db level of gain or it can be set for a level that is comparable with the REAL Echoplex EP-3 preamp which is a non-adjustable tone shaper-not a boost, exactly as Dave Friedman describes.

IIRC, in addition to the EP-3's standard tone shaping, I think Edward was also using graphic EQs on the outputs of both of his EP units, in those early days.
I'm pretty sure he had one set for about a quarter to a third of a second, with about one and a half repeats, and was on most of the time.
I think he had the other one set real short, maybe 40mS-ish, with one repeat, and a rather high level, for a real ambient effect that jumps out, which I would guess he used for just short blasts, like the flanged pick saw/scape, right at the beginning of the AP solo.

[garbeaj]

IIRC, in addition to the EP-3's standard tone shaping, I think Edward was also using graphic EQs on the outputs of both of his EP units, in those early days.
I'm pretty sure he had one set for about a quarter to a third of a second, with about one and a half repeats, and was on most of the time.
I think he had the other one set real short, maybe 40mS-ish, with one repeat, and a rather high level, for a real ambient effect that jumps out, which I would guess he used for just short blasts, like the flanged pick saw/scape, right at the beginning of the AP solo.

The blue 6-Band MXR EQ and the Boss GE-10 were most likely used only for long cable runs onstage during the ‘78 tours. There’s no evidence that he used either in the clubs or in the studio.

If you haven’t seen the Pete Thorn/Dave Friedman “Deep Dive” into the first album tone, you really should. Those EQs sound great and Pete does demo the Boss GE-10. It’s sounds great, but again not likely used for anything other than the larger stages and not in the clubs or the studio.

[turnbuckle]

The blue 6-Band MXR EQ and the Boss GE-10 were most likely used only for long cable runs onstage during the ‘78 tours. There’s no evidence that he used either in the clubs or in the studio.

If you haven’t seen the Pete Thorn/Dave Friedman “Deep Dive” into the first album tone, you really should. Those EQs sound great and Pete does demo the Boss GE-10. It’s sounds great, but again not likely used for anything other than the larger stages and not in the clubs or the studio.

Haven't you seen this;

[garbeaj]

Haven't you seen this;

Yep, that’s exactly my point. That is from the Japan tour 1978. Long past the club days or the studio sessions for the first album. Watch the Pete Thorn/Dave Friedman video (there’s already a thread on it here on this forum) and Pete’s follow-up on his Sunday Morning show...

[turnbuckle]

Yep, that’s exactly my point. That is from the Japan tour 1978. Long past the club days or the studio sessions for the first album...

Listen to this version of Atomic Punk from Pasadena, Oct '77; the second type of delay Ed used, the very short ambient one I was talking about earlier, is kicked in at about 2:22 til 2:43;



I'm fairly certain Edward had 2 EPs, even before the Japan Tour, set with two very different types of delay at his disposal, but nobody ever talks about that short one.
The album version of Atomic Punk is very similar to this version, effect wise, probably because they were recorded at roughly the same moment in time.

BTW, I ripped a lot of Ed's signature riffs off this particular Pasadena show, since I had it on vinyl in the very early '80s, and could spin it at 16 RPM.
He was throwing in riffs that would later be used in many albums too follow.
I like to call Pasadena Oct '77, Van Halen point 5, since it was after "Demo" and before "One".
It's been my holy grail for a long time.

[downtocabo55]

Their live performances sound amazing!