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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Iím not wilt chamberlain but I do ok. 5-15 minutes is normal for me. I donít leave until all parties are satisfied.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Also, they have to prove willfulness.
    Actually, they don't.

    Simply having it outside of a SCIF is a problem. From the National Archives point of view, and record retention of non-personal items, yeah, they just want the stuff back.

    It is a violation of National Security the moment you take out of the SCIF without the proper security precautions. And the items that both of them had just laying around in easily accessible spaces posed and probably still do poses a grave threat to National Security.

    If a man is flippant with our National Security, how can he be trusted to be POTUS? And that goes for both of them.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Actually, they don't.

    Simply having it outside of a SCIF is a problem. From the National Archives point of view, and record retention of non-personal items, yeah, they just want the stuff back.

    It is a violation of National Security the moment you take out of the SCIF without the proper security precautions. And the items that both of them had just laying around in easily accessible spaces posed and probably still do poses a grave threat to National Security.

    If a man is flippant with our National Security, how can he be trusted to be POTUS? And that goes for both of them.
    I am not arguing your last point. I am talking about the criminal charges and Hur report.

    You know more than I do on this, so maybe I am missing something. Hur says, "The criminal statutory provision that best fits the facts of our investigation is 18 U.S.C. ß 793(e), section of the Espionage Act that proscribes unauthorized retention and disclosure of national defense information. The law governing that crime is discussed below in sections I and II. We discuss other criminal prohibitions, and why they do not apply, in section III." Then, he says, "Finally, the government must prove that a defendant willfully retained the material and failed to deliver it to an officer or employee 'entitled to receive' the information." And then he goes on to say that, for each set of documents, essentially, they wouldn't be able to prove willfulness, "as the statute requires."

    This seems to suggest to me that the only charges they thought they could possibly bring requires he willfully took them.

  4. #16369
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    Biden’s physical finds him ‘healthy, active, robust,’ says White House doctor

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/0...sical-00143810

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    I understand some folks don't like the other guy. I get that. But this fucker is way out of his mind and league. Half the fucking time he doesn't even know where to exit stage. It's just stupid to watch. And he runs the show? Actually THE show! Negative. Let this dude eat his ice cream in one of his homes and let us all move on. Out.
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    Aaron Rodgers and Danica Patrick split up after 2 years of fucking ....I mean dating. edwardv.

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    For any medical doctor to say Biden is fit to run the USA is preposterous. Maybe he's just a normal 81 year old but nowhere what's needed to run the world's largest economy and military. The same goes for sing along with Mitch. The fact that the polls are tight once again shows how inept we have become pertaining to political leaders. Just listen to some old JFK and Nixon stuff . We are circling the bowl with clowns in DC and many local clowns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardv View Post
    For any medical doctor to say Biden is fit to run the USA is preposterous. Maybe he's just a normal 81 year old but nowhere what's needed to run the world's largest economy and military. The same goes for sing along with Mitch. The fact that the polls are tight once again shows how inept we have become pertaining to political leaders. Just listen to some old JFK and Nixon stuff . We are circling the bowl with clowns in DC and many local clowns.

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    These Presidential physicals have become a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardv View Post
    For any medical doctor to say Biden is fit to run the USA is preposterous. Maybe he's just a normal 81 year old but nowhere what's needed to run the world's largest economy and military. The same goes for sing along with Mitch. The fact that the polls are tight once again shows how inept we have become pertaining to political leaders. Just listen to some old JFK and Nixon stuff . We are circling the bowl with clowns in DC and many local clowns.

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    I posted it some weeks ago but you can watch Reagan in 88 and his State of the Union address and its light years beyond these guys. Reagan was starting to suffer from alzheimers at that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MD 5150 View Post
    Biden’s physical finds him ‘healthy, active, robust,’ says White House doctor

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/0...sical-00143810
    I believe that about as much as I believe Trump is 200lbs.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    I am not arguing your last point. I am talking about the criminal charges and Hur report.

    You know more than I do on this, so maybe I am missing something. Hur says, "The criminal statutory provision that best fits the facts of our investigation is 18 U.S.C. ß 793(e), section of the Espionage Act that proscribes unauthorized retention and disclosure of national defense information. The law governing that crime is discussed below in sections I and II. We discuss other criminal prohibitions, and why they do not apply, in section III." Then, he says, "Finally, the government must prove that a defendant willfully retained the material and failed to deliver it to an officer or employee 'entitled to receive' the information." And then he goes on to say that, for each set of documents, essentially, they wouldn't be able to prove willfulness, "as the statute requires."

    This seems to suggest to me that the only charges they thought they could possibly bring requires he willfully took them.
    They are subtly changing the wording of the statute in their writing. The statute is "knowingly removes" with "intent to retain".

    Both of them knowingly removed them, and both of them had intent to retain.

    What is not in the statute is that anyone who has access to these documents/information is trained out the wahzoo on how to handle them, and the consequences of improper handling, and you are told from the very beginning of your LIFELONG responsibility to guard these secrets.

    To anyone in the industry, if you walk out of SCIF with a classified document, you are showing intent and are proving willingness. This isn't an "oopsie, my bad, I brought the Iranian war plan home in my briefcase...sorry!"
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

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    A man's rights rests in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

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    Said this numerous times but in the 90's I had to handle and destroy anything up to Top Secret SCI. Every night at midnight I had to put SCI in the shredder. Then remove some from a safe and install in key systems Depending on the month, I would have to go drive to our command center and pick up the monthly tape and code books. Like the South African diplomat from Lethal Weapon 2, I had diplomatic immunity. In my van, I had a document that prevented Icelandic police, security and even American security from searching the vehicle. I was E4/5

    Before handling I had to pass a qualification course. Had to study and read a 200 page manual called CMS something. Boring shit. Basically when you got certified you signed documents stating you are fully aware how to handle. store and destroy classified material. If you don't abide you are wiling to go to jail for negligence

    I wasn't some super special person. Yes not everybody gets SCI clearance but every freaking Crypto guy in the Navy had it. Thousands of them. Why can't we hold the same standard to the presidents as we do of our 20 something men in the service?

    Shit I almost went to Captains mast for some guy fucking up on my watch. I wasn't involved yet I was the supervisor. I was under more scrutiny for that than Biden or Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I believe that about as much as I believe Trump is 200lbs.
    It's crazy how someone can be so vain. Dude is eaily 260 after he takes a shit
    Dealing with it.

  18. #16378
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    Here is how I see it.

    The Biden handling was way worse than initially reported. And we should be holding people accountable. It's also unlikely Hur is playing politics. He's a Trump appointee and he filed charges against the President's son. Federal prosecutors usually only bring slam dunk cases.

    People at the time Trump's home was raided said, "They better have the goods" if you're going to do this against a former POTUS.

    In the Trump case, they have willfulness. Not only was he too stupid to give them back, he went on TV and said, "I took the documents. I am allowed to." (This is a real quote in a Town Hall on CNN.) He's on a recording showing people a document he admits is classified defense information. And he plotted to destroy evidence and instructed others to lie about it. So they also have obstruction of justice.

    Hur even makes these distinctions in the Biden report. ". . . [S]everal material distinctions between Mr. Trump's case and Mr. Biden's are clear. Unlike the evidence involving Mr. Biden, the allegations set forth in the indictment of Mr. Trump, if proven, would present serious aggravating facts. Most notably, after being given multiple chances to return classified documents and avoid prosecution, Mr. Trump allegedly did the opposite. According to the indictment, he not only refused to return the documents for many months, but he also obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about
    it . . ."


    It seems like they "have the goods" people were saying they needed if you are going to go after a POTUS/former POTUS.

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    At a bare minimum, BARE MINIMUM, Biden's classified documents were in his garage, personal home office, and personal office at the university (can't remember which one) from the day he left office as VP until he turned them in. Worst case, some of them are from when he was Chairman of the Foreign Services Committee, so that is getting to 15 years possibly (this is not an exact guess LM).

    That is at best years in his personal possession outside a SCIF, and at worst more than a decade.

    That is a willingness to retain.

    And this isn't just one piece of paper that accidentally got included in his papers. This was a large amount of TS//NOFORN and higher documents in his possession. Those just don't get included with the mail. That is intent.

    The difference between Trump and Biden is the sheer volume of what was kept and their reaction when caught.

    For some, that gives Biden an out, but it doesn't for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I believe that about as much as I believe Trump is 200lbs.
    Some of it does put things in perspective. Like the foot neuropathy. If your feet are numb tripping and an awkward gate are a given. My mother had it. Spinal arthritis. I have it and when it is flaring up I stiffen up. So that checks a couple of boxes on Bidens appearance lately. The rest of the stuff is pretty usual for someone of his age. The most telling part of the report is a lack of a cognitive test. My 83 year old aunt went to the doctor recently and he did a routine cognitive test. Not detailed, but you can bet the results of that test are noted in her chart.

    But this report is just like Trumps doctor's declaration that he is the most healthy man to ever be president or some such shit. It's just some lame posturing by old guys.

 

 

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