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    I don't understand how requiring that for someone to carry a lethal weapon outside of their home they need to be trained to do so is infringing on anyone's liberty.

    Only in America do we fight against becoming better at using something in the name of freedom.
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    Because it's both a natural and Constitutional right. I don't know if I've seen anything that shows the intent was for government to have more control over 2A rights once people leave their property. I could be wrong though.

    One thing I know is that I've never been responsible for anything like Waco back in the 90's. Our government is so corrupt and inept that it makes me want them involved in our lives even less. But that's my opinion on it.

    I'm not against people seeking better firearms training. I just don't think it should be a requirement when self defense is a natural right to start with.
    Last edited by rocknblues81; 04.22.24 at 07:15 PM.

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    If people think that everyone getting strapped up with a firearm to go the 7-11 is a better America, then you can fucking have the place.

    I bet most people who carry a firearm in public couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, so yes, that is infringing upon the rights of others. It has other uses, but a gun is designed to kill, period, and not knowing how to use a tool that is designed to kill DOES infringe upon my rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    Not saying you can't own it, not saying you can't use it. Am saying that if you want to carry in public, you need to show that you are capable of using it at some level of proficiency. If we can't even agree on that, God help us.
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    https://efsgv.org/learn/type-of-gun-...nal-shootings/

    In 2019, 486 Americans died from unintentional firearm injuries — about 1.2% of total gun deaths.2

    Unintentional is the description used in public health for an injury or death that was not caused purposely (in contrast with suicide and homicide, in which there is an intent to cause harm). Unintentional shootings can be self-inflicted or inflicted by someone else. About half of all unintentional gun deaths are caused by another person pulling the trigger.3 Each year, nearly 500 people die from unintentional firearm injuries — more than one person every single day.


    According to this, 486 people died via unintentional public shootings in 2019. Granted, any loss of life by accident sucks, but it's not even close to an epidemic..

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    It's like you don't even read what I write, but comment on it anyway.

    I never once said it is an epidemic.

    I said I, me personally, don't like it. I think it is stupid, and I think it is dangerous to have people walking around with firearms that don't know how to use them. I also said that I don't want to live in a country where everyone feels the need to strap up before going to 7-11.

    Here, in summary, just to make it easy: I believe having people walk around carrying weapons designed to kill, without knowing how to properly use said weapon designed to kill, is inherently dangerous. If you can't even agree with me on that simple point, then we have nothing more to discuss, we come from a completely different world view.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    It's like you don't even read what I write, but comment on it anyway.

    I never once said it is an epidemic.

    I said I, me personally, don't like it. I think it is stupid, and I think it is dangerous to have people walking around with firearms that don't know how to use them. I also said that I don't want to live in a country where everyone feels the need to strap up before going to 7-11.

    Here, in summary, just to make it easy: I believe having people walk around carrying weapons designed to kill, without knowing how to properly use said weapon designed to kill, is inherently dangerous. If you can't even agree with me on that simple point, then we have nothing more to discuss, we come from a completely different world view.
    So, DD, what you're saying is you don't support 2A and you're in favor of the federal gov't coming to take everyone's guns. And you call yourself an American?



    I think most people would agree with you that it is dangerous for others to be out carrying weapons that they don't know how to use properly.

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    I think common sense is missing from pretty much every hot topic. Abortion? Sure I think it should be there but I can't agree anybody getting one 6 months in unless ones life is in danger. ID at Voting? I don't see why asking somebody to present an ID to vote is racist but me at 55, buying Vuse for my wife has to show his ID. Immigration. I agree in legal immigration but why do we need to let 2 million people in illegally a year (just throwing that number out before somebody posts a link), especially feeding an giving them free housing.

    Guns. I had to take a hunter safety course in 1983 to get my hunting license. Well at least I think I did. My dad took me to do it. I got it. Just to hunt. I don't see why some basic training is taboo for a person to strap in public. I don't have any issues with concealed carry but people can be stupid with guns. Lets try to eliminate some of that by giving some training.

    I don't trust our government by any means either but getting a cert to me isn't infringing on a right.

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    I just find the whole argument stupid. As I type this, I have a Glock 32 in my back. Why? You just never know.

    I am a believer that most people know how to use a gun. Pretty easy to figure out. Especially if you’ve seen any of the Beverly Hills cop movies.

    Common sense gun control is an oxymoron like jumbo shrimp. A gun is an instrument to kill someone. All you hear is horror stories about people dying by guns. Well, that might be true but where’s the outrage on car deaths? Do we need common sense car control now? And quite honestly there are more moving parts in driving than gun ownership.

    Point is, people are gonna fuck up. They’re gonna make mistakes. With either a Chevy or a Glock. Just because someone does is not indicative of the population as a whole. Yet a few bad apples always fuck it up for everyone.

    Do what’s right for you and your family. Live with the consequences or bear the rewards.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    It's like you don't even read what I write, but comment on it anyway.

    I never once said it is an epidemic.

    I said I, me personally, don't like it. I think it is stupid, and I think it is dangerous to have people walking around with firearms that don't know how to use them. I also said that I don't want to live in a country where everyone feels the need to strap up before going to 7-11.

    Here, in summary, just to make it easy: I believe having people walk around carrying weapons designed to kill, without knowing how to properly use said weapon designed to kill, is inherently dangerous. If you can't even agree with me on that simple point, then we have nothing more to discuss, we come from a completely different world view.
    I wasn't claiming that you were saying that it was an epidemic. Honestly, those numbers are lower than I was expecting myself before I read them. I would have guessed that they would be higher given how many firearms there are in the country, and given the high population in the US.

    I get that you dont like the idea of people being able to carry guns in public without training. I think a lot of things are dumb also. I think alcohol is dumb because humans can be idiots with alcohol. Lots of destruction comes from it.

    Some times my feelings tell me that we would be better off without it, so I'd be fine with seeing it gone or wanting my laws against it. The point is that sometimes we have to understand where our feelings stop and other peoples rights start. Some times we might "feel" that certain things are stupid, dumb or wrong. It is tough to separate the two sometimes.

    It might not seem like it, but I do understand how you feel about it. There are a lot of dumb people in the country. However, I don't think the numbers justify the requirements. We can agree to disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    I just find the whole argument stupid. As I type this, I have a Glock 32 in my back. Why? You just never know.

    I am a believer that most people know how to use a gun. Pretty easy to figure out. Especially if you’ve seen any of the Beverly Hills cop movies.

    Common sense gun control is an oxymoron like jumbo shrimp. A gun is an instrument to kill someone. All you hear is horror stories about people dying by guns. Well, that might be true but where’s the outrage on car deaths? Do we need common sense car control now? And quite honestly there are more moving parts in driving than gun ownership.

    Point is, people are gonna fuck up. They’re gonna make mistakes. With either a Chevy or a Glock. Just because someone does is not indicative of the population as a whole. Yet a few bad apples always fuck it up for everyone.

    Do what’s right for you and your family. Live with the consequences or bear the rewards.


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    I think there is more Grey area and debate in regards to stuff like smoking in public. Where we know that 2nd hand smoking is harmful to people just by simply being around someone that smokes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    This is why discussing this stuff with you is a waste of time.

    By the way, that's another lefty trope. There's your example.

    adios
    I think you believe that anything that isn't Trump ball-washing is a lefty trope. It must suck living no-stop in that echo chamber that you're in. Good riddance and I hope they pull the political forums so that we see the last of you. That year that you were on sabbatical from this site was glorious. No one was posting BS from far-right websites as if they were facts and people actually realized that insurrections were bad and that a peaceful transition of power was essential. Good times.

    Btw I'm blocking you. It's long overdue and I just don't want to see your "truths" anymore. Good luck in your mom's basement next to Mar-a-lago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    I just find the whole argument stupid. As I type this, I have a Glock 32 in my back. Why? You just never know.

    I am a believer that most people know how to use a gun. Pretty easy to figure out. Especially if you’ve seen any of the Beverly Hills cop movies.

    Common sense gun control is an oxymoron like jumbo shrimp. A gun is an instrument to kill someone. All you hear is horror stories about people dying by guns. Well, that might be true but where’s the outrage on car deaths? Do we need common sense car control now? And quite honestly there are more moving parts in driving than gun ownership.

    Point is, people are gonna fuck up. They’re gonna make mistakes. With either a Chevy or a Glock. Just because someone does is not indicative of the population as a whole. Yet a few bad apples always fuck it up for everyone.

    Do what’s right for you and your family. Live with the consequences or bear the rewards.


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    The only counterpoint I would make on this is that there is a difference between a Chevy and a Glock. Generally speaking if someone gets hit and killed/injured by a vehicle it is almost always a true accident. With a firearm it is usually intentional (with again some exceptions).
    "People ask me how far I've come. And I tell them twelve feet: from the audience to the stage." - David Lee Roth

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    Default THE BIDEN PRESIDENCY

    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    I just find the whole argument stupid. As I type this, I have a Glock 32 in my back. Why? You just never know.

    I am a believer that most people know how to use a gun. Pretty easy to figure out. Especially if you’ve seen any of the Beverly Hills cop movies.

    Common sense gun control is an oxymoron like jumbo shrimp. A gun is an instrument to kill someone. All you hear is horror stories about people dying by guns. Well, that might be true but where’s the outrage on car deaths? Do we need common sense car control now? And quite honestly there are more moving parts in driving than gun ownership.

    Point is, people are gonna fuck up. They’re gonna make mistakes. With either a Chevy or a Glock. Just because someone does is not indicative of the population as a whole. Yet a few bad apples always fuck it up for everyone.

    Do what’s right for you and your family. Live with the consequences or bear the rewards.


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    People need training to legally own and drive a Chevy, though. That is the very definition of common sense “car control”.

    You need training to get a license so it’s not really a apples to apples comparison, IMO. If you fail your driving test and are not licensed, you can’t buy a car and you can’t be a potential risk to the public due to your lack of training.

    Gun ownership requires no such training because it’s a Right.

    Thankfully driving an automobile is a privilege and we don’t just hand out licenses because a document from 200+ years ago said that everybody has a right to one.

    Now, there are plenty of people who are licensed and still commit terrible acts behind the wheel of a car but I’m not sure anybody would make the argument that all driver training courses and licensing procedures should be thrown out the window.

    My thoughts on the 2A have shifted to a much more accepting position than it once was 5-10 years ago but at the same time, I’m failing to see the issue with the argument, “You must or should have training in order to purchase a gun.”

    I guess I’m failing to see the point in the counter-argument. Do we NOT want people to be trained on how to use a firearm?

    Why can’t the Constitution be amended, once again, to say, “Every American shall have the God given right and opportunity to attain licensed ownership of a firearm as it is every American’s God given right to defend themselves.” ?


    At the end of the day though, the cats out of the bag. There are millions upon millions upon millions of guns in the hands of people who have no business having them (both legally and illegally) so I get that it would be hard to tell people now, “Starting now you need to go for training”.

    It’s not a cut and dry or B&W discussion, unfortunately.
    Last edited by MF5150; 04.23.24 at 08:02 AM.
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    Cars are a terrible argument.

    I recall this being said to me in the 80's by my government teacher. Driving is a privilege not a constitutional right. Can't compare any sort of qualification for a car to a gun. Black and White perspective. No grey area.

    I like to live in grey areas so I can see the point but just because something works for driving doesn't apply to guns. Its not a right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Cars are a terrible argument.

    I recall this being said to me in the 80's by my government teacher. Driving is a privilege not a constitutional right. Can't compare any sort of qualification for a car to a gun. Black and White perspective. No grey area.

    I like to live in grey areas so I can see the point but just because something works for driving doesn't apply to guns. Its not a right.
    Why do you think driving is a privilege and not a right?


    But I get it. To you there is no compromise or grey area. Gun ownership is a right, no matter how dangerously unqualified somebody is to be using one. Rights apply to all so you gotta take the good with the bad. I totally respect that viewpoint.

    I simply disagree to an extent.
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