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  1. #2536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad to the Bone View Post
    I honestly don't know and I know someone on here will know: how many executive orders has Joe signed since getting into office?
    Biden has signed more than 50 executive actions, 22 of which are direct reversals of Trump’s policies. Big, big fun in erasing Trumps policies! Especially the immigration, which was on a pretty decent path.

    https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021...cutive-orders/

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    Yes I find it interesting that here we are having people wanting us to carry COVID vaccination cards. Can't travel without them. Can't go to an office without one however if you want to come into this country, come on in. You don't need to check in. You don't need to let us know you are COVID free. We can't trust our citizens with practicing COVID safe doctrine yet if you are breaking in here illegally, its all good.

    If there was any period in time where we need to know who is coming and going into this country its now. Ehhh fuck it. Anything to score political points with a key demographic

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    Democrats have been the most hypocritical I've EVER seen in my lifetime since this pandemic. They don't even care anymore about public perception.

    From encouraging the mass Floyd protests to letting illegals come in. All during a devastating health crisis. If it's minority related all is fair game.

  4. #2539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Most qualified President in our lifetime, and the last true stateman in office.
    Here’s a question, if bush gets re-elected, does September 11th still happen?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #2540
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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Here’s a question, if bush gets re-elected, does September 11th still happen?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If I had to guess, yes. It was the Bush administration that set things in motion with entering the Gulf War and staging the forces in Saudi Arabia. Clinton took a less direct approach during his 8 years in office, but lobbed a bunch of cruise missiles into the area which had the dual benefit of not accomplishing much and pissing people off even more. My guess would be that if Bush was in for another 4 years, there's a chance we're in Iraq a decade earlier and Bin Laden (or someone similar) takes advantage of the proximity of US troops to divert attention there. However, the next administration would inevitably revert some of those policies, diminishing the number of local targets which would turn their attention state side. While the timeline would be skewed, there would be nothing that would really prevent a 9/11 attack in the future since I don't think another 4 years of HW Bush would have altered the complacency and lack of imagination that was built into the defense agencies when it came to protecting the US.

    We had systems in place to defend ourselves from state aggressors as that had been the status quo of the world. It wasn't until terrorism hit our shores that those agencies took it seriously enough to change their ways.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Here’s a question, if bush gets re-elected, does September 11th still happen?


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    Who knows, as there would have still been a new POTUS in 1996.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombattt View Post
    You’ve got two good points there.

    Yes, for most here the “Clinton Era” is most likely when we paid attention to politics. Also the climate had changed, H.W. Bush was the last of the WWII veteran Presidents. They had a different creed of social behavior. Clinton and his team openly mocked Bush during the ‘92 Campaign...as well as Ross Perot carrying out what many believe as a personal vendetta against H. W. Bush. Now Clinton and his team grasped the importance and impact of the 24 hour news cycle, much like FDR understood radio’s place in politics, JFK understood Television’s and Trump with social media’s (Hell, he just about invented it)....the national tone had changed in ‘92. A case of youth casting off their fathers’ customs and traditions. Clinton rightly or wrongly is stamped with that change. Their guerrilla style, immediate, often mocking responses to every statement or appearance of Bush’s ‘92 campaign was brilliant and brutal (to Bush). The rules of the game had changed and H.W. Bush didn’t adapt, nor understand them. He was working on an obsolete paradigm. A set of different public behavioral norms.

    Social Media’s impact on society and its factions is clearly severe. Hell, look at how many arguments and dusts ups we have here...and we have something huge in common. We all love music in general and the music of Van Halen in particular. What the impact of social media is on people who recognize no connection with each other remains unknown and I examined...but I’m sure we can all assume it’s divisive. Unfortunately the affect will not be known until we’re long gone.

    I don’t agree calling our societies issues and challenges a’ cold civil war’ since the beginning of the American experiment, that phrase is hyperbolic and too harsh. That’s not a ‘privileged’ perspective either, but rather a measured one. It dismisses too many progressive milestones and treasured qualities that are unique to the United States. As a fellow historian, I’m sure you can name a few of them.

    Have you noticed that everytime someone is not ‘outraged’ or ‘contrite’ about a social issue over the last decade or so, that person is blinded by their privilege? Dismissing every idea that doesn’t conform to a set standard of expectations is intellectually wrong.

    Orwell was really onto something when he wrote 1984.
    I really appreciate what you've written. While my phrase may be a bit harsh, I did not intend for it to be construed as hyperbole. The United States barely made it out of the Revolution before regional rivalries and class conflict within the new states nearly derailed the great experiment in the 1780s. Southern states nearly walked out of the Constitutional Convention over slavery and many of the Founders/Framers didn't think the existing government created by the Constitution would last 20 years. As the new republic grew and matured in the first half of the 19th century, compromises and threats of force often kept the Union together. Hell, some New England states aided and abetted the British during the War of 1812 while offering little to no support in the country's second War for Independence. The country survived a bloody civil war and the victors solidified national supremacy and perpetual Union over states' rights and secession. More importantly, the nation secured the end of slavery and set in motion the long march toward civil and political rights for African Americans, women, and other minorities. Along that arduous road to bridging the gap between the nation's stated principles and its practices, every progressive reform and law that sought to undo an injustice or to expand democracy and secure first class citizenship to all native born and naturalized citizens was and has been met with resistance and virulent backlashes from those unable or unwilling to move forward. As President Biden stated in his first inaugural address, "enough of us came together to carry all of us forward." I wonder if, at some point, there won't be enough of us to pull the rest forward or believe enough in the cause to keep the experiment alive.
    "To hell with the rules. If it sounds right, then it is." King Edward Lodewijk Van Halen

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardv View Post
    It would be a guerrilla war imo as both sides would have trouble mounting massive standing armies with modern weapons ala 1860. But the one side already has the lead in small arms and ammo imo 3-4 to 1. Lets hope it never happens.

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    If that time comes, and Washington is in the right hands, then that skewed ratio means nothing. The U.S. intelligence and military communities will crush the violent insurrectionists.
    "To hell with the rules. If it sounds right, then it is." King Edward Lodewijk Van Halen

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    Whenever I hear that the US military would crush even an organized rebellion by the average gun owner, I think about the fact that the Taliban controls more of Afghanistan today than in September of 2001.

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    Bear in mind that America has more guns than the military and servicemen. And no reasonable American is going to kill their fellow people.

    Notice how I said reasonable.


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  13. #2546
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    Just saw the Secretary of Defense interviewed about what message Iran should take from the recent strikes. His answer didn’t give me a lot of confidence, pretty much the same as when he was the CENTCOM Commander. Confused, muddled, unfocused with objectives that shift with the wind.
    "Always hopeful, yet discontent,
    He knows changes aren't permanent
    But change is!"

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    [QUOTE=fudd;2426321]Bear in mind that America has more guns than the military and servicemen. And no reasonable American is going to kill their fellow people.[QUOTE]

    Many reasonable Americans killed or directed the killing of fellow Americans during the American Civil War.
    "To hell with the rules. If it sounds right, then it is." King Edward Lodewijk Van Halen

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  16. #2548
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    If you are honestly comparing an event that occurred 150 years ago to today, well not sure what I can say that will make one change their mind. You had State rights which at the time trumped Fed rights. People were more proud of being a citizen of Ohio, Virginia, Pa, Georgia, etc than a citizen of the United States. General Lee didn't want to fight for the Confederacy but had to out of allegiance to Virginia. Think of Texas on steroids. Texas as we know it today isn't as state centric as any of the states in the Union or Confederacy. You had skirmishes between states and territories as well. You had an economic way of life that was going to be removed or was threatening to be removed. What we think of the Green Deal removing fossil fuels is simply political talk compared to what actually was happening back then with slavery.

    Yes its reasonable people did kill and will continue to kill during Civil Wars. However whether we did it in the Civil War really has no bearing on what could happen in the future.

    That said I would imagine if something came to light you wouldn't see the full extent of the US Military going 100% against an insurgency. Like us, the military is polarized as well. They respect the Chain of Command but having served under a very unpopular president within the military (Clinton because he was the first draft dodger), you do what you must. However you bitch, moan, groan and etc. Doing what they want against foreign targets is one thing. Its an enemy of the United States. Foreign enemy. Domestic is a bit different. I don't think our troops would have gone ape shit during the Summer of Love despite Trump being in charge. I don't think our troops would go ape shit if Q or whatever started some stuff. Most likely you would have some generals stand down their troops. You would see infighting within the troops.

    Believe me the troops are not 100% Biden or do they love Trump. They won't be 100% behind whomever is next. That said, if the military wanted to go WW2 on a set of civilians they could but we didn't in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc We won't be doing it on our own people. You would be surprised at what civilians can do with small arms. No they cannot overtake a countries armed forces but they simply make it very difficult for them.

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  18. #2549
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    Someone gets it.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

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    The fact that we are discussing the possibility of another Civil War in the "United" States of America speaks volumes about the abject failure of both political parties. This country will almost assuredly continue to devolve into the "Divided" States of America unless the current administration somehow keeps its campaign promise to somehow bring people together. Terms like "white privilege" and "cancel culture" need to go the way of 8-track tapes, VCRs and opinions that Van Halen III "really wasn't that bad".
    "It's so lonely at the top because it's so crowded at the bottom" - Diamond David Lee Roth

    "The truth sounds like hate to those who hate the truth" - Todd Wagner

    "Women and Children First ... The REAL Van Halen III"

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