THE BIDEN PRESIDENCY

[jimmy812]

Just throwing this out there. Not saying I believe in it or anything of the sort. However I remember when talk of autism was being discussed 10 or so years ago, obvioulsy vaccines were the reason why. Well I remember them being the scapegoat. Could it be the use of formula instead? I would imagine over 50 years the use of formula has only increased. Just like vaccines I would assume all things being equal mothers milk is the best thing for a child. Its natural. Its gone through millions of years of adaptation.

Maybe the new mental illnesses that plague us are related to this? Not saying it is. I just never hear of anything bad about formula. I view breast milk as water. You can't go wrong with clean water for your body. Maybe formula is gatorade. Yeah its good for you but its still not water.

Doesn't it also depend on the mother's diet?

I think the "new" mental illness has more to do with bad parenting and an apparent reliance on electronics than baby formula.

[fudd]

Doesn't it also depend on the mother's diet?

I think the "new" mental illness has more to do with bad parenting and an apparent reliance on electronics than baby formula.

As long as the diet isn’t solely amphetamines or heroin, it shouldn’t matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ziggysmalls]

Doesn't it also depend on the mother's diet?

I think the "new" mental illness has more to do with bad parenting and an apparent reliance on electronics than baby formula.

Oh I am sure bad parenting is at play but I am not sure if that causes something like Autism. Not claiming to be an expert. I simply don't know. Something obviously is causing it. COuld be 1 million things. That said I would imagine if a woman is somewhat healthy breast milk will kick the shit out of formula 10 out 10 times. As we saw with COVID. Mother nature rules man. We create numerous vaccines to prevent the spread. All of them paled in comparsion to Omnicron infecting everybody. We think we are God but Mother Nature is God.

[lovemachine97(Version 2)]

The problem with this is that there is no concrete data that shows any sort of outcome advantage for breast milk or disadvantage for formula.

And I gotta say, this is the type of thing that causes mothers all kinds of unneeded distress. We go around saying this thing is better because it is natural, absent of evidence--I mean, not brushing your teeth is "natural," and toothpaste and toothbrushes are human inventions, so maybe we shouldn't brush--to the point where it stresses mothers out and makes them feel like failures if they need to use formula. I can tell you, anecdotally, my wife cried when I told her we should try formula with our son who was going hungry with the lack of lactation. And it turns out all of that was societal pressure based on "the feels" and not much else.

And it is even further unnecessary to just say, gee, it correlates with autism, so maybe it causes that, I don't know, not saying it does..especially with people right here on this board who have kids who mostly had formula and have autism.

Increased diagnoses of autism also correlate with the building of the freeway system and women going to college in increasing numbers. I am not saying it's true, but maybe women leaving their natural place in the home as a mother and driving places and getting educated is causing autism. I don't have any evidence, but maybe.

[jimmy812]

Oh I am sure bad parenting is at play but I am not sure if that causes something like Autism. Not claiming to be an expert. I simply don't know. Something obviously is causing it. COuld be 1 million things. That said I would imagine if a woman is somewhat healthy breast milk will kick the shit out of formula 10 out 10 times. As we saw with COVID. Mother nature rules man. We create numerous vaccines to prevent the spread. All of them paled in comparsion to Omnicron infecting everybody. We think we are God but Mother Nature is God.

My bad, Zig, I kind of over-looked your case about Autism--it was only 90% of your entire post! LOL

I focused more on the mental illness that seems to inundate our societies now...either way, clearly I'm not an expert. But I really don't think baby formula has any link to autism or to mental illness. Just my under-educated opinion, though.

[MD 5150]

The problem with this is that there is no concrete data that shows any sort of outcome advantage for breast milk or disadvantage for formula.

That is absolutely NOT true, google search will show you plenty of data by every medical institution known to man.

[lovemachine97(Version 2)]

That is absolutely NOT true, google search will show you plenty of data by every medical institution known to man.

In a previous post I linked to the explanation from an economist who covers this that there are very few studies with good data and that when you account for other factors for women who tend to breast feed, there are several things that could account for the outcome, not just breast milk. In other words, is it because you breast fed or because you are way richer than the people who typically don't? The data doesn't really answer that.

It's sort of like 'A glass of wine a night is linked to better life outcomes.' That may be true, but it isn't a causal relationship, and the people who tend to drink a glass of wine regularly are often of better means, berter educated, exercise more, etc. So is it the wine or is it the other stuff? Similarly, women who breast feed are typically wealthier and healthier than those who don't, and when you account for that stuff, the advantages basically disappear.

There are actually only two studies that study it in a randomized way and THOSE studies show no disadvantage to formula outside of a few more gastrointestinal issues and rashes.

You can look at the explanation here and here.

Why an economist? Because they are trained to parse data.

[ziggysmalls]

For the record I didn't even think of going to Google. It was just a random thought that popped into my head. I was just thinking of how we are so dependant on formula. My dad yesterday was saying when he grew up (he is 85) formula wasn't even in the equationi for obvioius reasons. Then proceeded to say how kids in the neighborhood on hot summer days used to pick tar from the road and chew it like bubble gum. Yeah really safe Oh an then pick lead based paint off houses all the time.

Anyway I just had a random thought come to my head. I truly believe that evolution is much better than any of our attempts at circumventing mother nature. Even if you want to take a creation theory, 8 thousand years of doing something a certain way is likely better than what we have been doing to our kids the last 50. Doesn't mean what we do is bad Simply put my faith into mother nature and our genetic code than what society deems to be true.

Maybe part of the issues we are having (digressing to other topics of interest today) is that we are short circuiting either thousands, ten thousand, 100k, or millions of years of instinct, genetics, etc and what is happening is we can't cope with shit or we are reacting badly to it.

Just a thought. Not anything based on science, or some posting on FB>

[lovemachine97(Version 2)]

Google certainly says breast is best. That is why we have the term. And all the shaming.

And no one is saying breast is bad, either. All I am pointing out is these studies that show it is best have other explanations that are just as likely to result in better outcomes, and in the two studies we have with good data--randomized in one, siblings in another--there's no breast advantage outside of some marginal things (more diarrhea, rashes)

I understand the inclination that natural is best. But we figured out the unnatural act of brushing teeth is good. Natural is letting your teeth rot out. The unnatural act of getting vaccinated is perhaps the greatest scientific advancement so far in human history. Natural is dying of Polio. Natural is dying of diseases that antibiotics or medical treatment can cure or make chronic. Unnatural is taking that medicine or treatment.

Formula is a huge advancement for the health and lives of our kids. As many as 5% of mothers can't produce enough and up to 15% have disruptions where they do not produce enough. There are women who want to work and have kids and formula works better for them. We should be hailing these things as incredible for humankind, yet we continue to make moms feel bad for using it, even if it is just making the assumption that it must be worse for their kid because it isn't natural.

[jimmy812]

I don't think baby formula is to blame for the things we're talking about here.

But I do question the bigger reliance these days on processed foods and unhealthy diets. Look at the increase in allergies. I don't remember having a ban on peanut butter in schools like there is now.

[lovemachine97(Version 2)]

I don't think baby formula is to blame for the things we're talking about here.

But I do question the bigger reliance these days on processed foods and unhealthy diets. Look at the increase in allergies. I don't remember having a ban on peanut butter in schools like there is now.

It's possible. I hesitate to ascribe any causes to these things absent good evidence. It's sort of like the mass shooting thread. There's basically no rigorous, scientific research on mass shootings. So people tend ascribe their cause du jour to it--Video games! Parenting! Electronic Devices! Guns! Mental Illness!--when the reality is it's like looking for a needle in a stack of needles. Thus, the conversation becomes political as opposed to looking for actual solutions.

The latest hypothesis on, say, peanuts, is that we did the exact opposite of what we should have, and we should be introducing those allergens, like peanuts, earlier. But that only has yet to be disproven, so who knows? It's the best info we have now.

The other thing I have learned to question is whether or not there actually is an is. In other words, back to mass shootings, once we make sure we are talking about the same thing, there really is no increase in the frequency of them in time we have good stats, going back to 1976. But it feels like there has been, primarily based upon increased coverage. So I do wonder if that is true of allergies. I honestly have no idea, but it is where I would start.

[ziggysmalls]

Yeah something is screwed up. Likely 1000 things. When I commented on natural discussing what we put in our body. Food for one. Water instead of soda. Obviously vaccines are good but I wouldn't put formula in the same category as scientific improvement as a vaccine. While teeth are better, we experience far more rot than people 600 years ago. Due to sugar. Teeth were far better without the discovery of sugar. Its why it was fashionable to have blackened teeth. You had money because you could afford sugar. Even with bad breath.

I do feel terrible for women who can't breast feed having to go through this. Unacceptable. I don't care why, how, if its COVID, supply chain, Putin, son of Putin, Ultra MAGA, MAGA Lite, MAGA IPA, Communists, Xi, Mitch, Pelosi, etc. This is totally unacceptable. If I can go into a supermarket and buy a shit load of soda, beer, twinkies, Doritos, etc I should be able to buy formula.

[lovemachine97(Version 2)]

Yeah something is screwed up. Likely 1000 things. When I commented on natural discussing what we put in our body. Food for one. Water instead of soda. Obviously vaccines are good but I wouldn't put formula in the same category as scientific improvement as a vaccine. While teeth are better, we experience far more rot than people 600 years ago. Due to sugar. Teeth were far better without the discovery of sugar. Its why it was fashionable to have blackened teeth. You had money because you could afford sugar. Even with bad breath.

I do feel terrible for women who can't breast feed having to go through this. Unacceptable. I don't care why, how, if its COVID, supply chain, Putin, son of Putin, Ultra MAGA, MAGA Lite, MAGA IPA, Communists, Xi, Mitch, Pelosi, etc. This is totally unacceptable. If I can go into a supermarket and buy a shit load of soda, beer, twinkies, Doritos, etc I should be able to buy formula.

One thing we may agree on is learning nothing from Operation Warp Speed. And I have been harping on this for a while, far before COVID.

If you remember, the warnings were, 'It can take 12 years to get a vaccine to market, so don't hold your breath.' And then by December, 11 months, needles were in arms.

So why in the fuck we haven't dragged the FDA in front of Congress to answer why we can get a safe, effective vaccine in 11 months when it previously took a decade?

Because part of the formula problem is FDA compliance. Even if we COULD get imported formula, it would take too long to live up to FDA regs on things like labeling, which is insane, especially when a lot of the European formula is better than ours.

Tariffs, trade quotas, and WIC preferences are also an issue, but the FDA is long overdue for justifying their molasses-like pace.

[ziggysmalls]

One thing we may agree on is learning nothing from Operation Warp Speed. And I have been harping on this for a while, far before COVID.

If you remember, the warnings were, 'It can take 12 years to get a vaccine to market, so don't hold your breath.' And then by December, 11 months, needles were in arms.

So why in the fuck we haven't dragged the FDA in front of Congress to answer why we can get a safe, effective vaccine in 11 months when it previously took a decade?

Because part of the formula problem is FDA compliance. Even if we COULD get imported formula, it would take too long to live up to FDA regs on things like labeling, which is insane, especially when a lot of the European formula is better than ours.

Tariffs, trade quotas, and WIC preferences are also an issue, but the FDA is long overdue for justifying their molasses-like pace.

I can agree to this in principle. You guys know my deal. I am thrice vaxxed. Glad I got two and one. That said I am not so sure the original intent of the vaccine was a success. Unless it was minformation the CDC, Fauci, etc all were saying the vaccine would be effective in preventing catching COVID> Last summer they said you couldn't catch it. We all know that isn't the case. Now will it help with the symptoms? Yeah. That's why I am happy. However if Kamala can have 4 jabs and still get it and that J&J is I think pulled, well not sure if it was a resounding success.

I still am adamant that we are at our current juncture due to a very mild strain being introduced and that it was high contagious. Vaccine obviously helped but without Omnicron, we would still be where we were at November 2021. In other words, the vaccine was like UK and USA with Normandy invasion. Omnicron was the USSR which really broke Germany's back. Just my MMQB. I know its likely not popular here.

That said I do believe we need to streamline the process. I imagine money is the reason why they don't approve stuff in a quick matter. Given my choice of your preferred method or current, I will take yours

[lovemachine97(Version 2)]

I can agree to this in principle. You guys know my deal. I am thrice vaxxed. Glad I got two and one. That said I am not so sure the original intent of the vaccine was a success. Unless it was minformation the CDC, Fauci, etc all were saying the vaccine would be effective in preventing catching COVID> Last summer they said you couldn't catch it. We all know that isn't the case. Now will it help with the symptoms? Yeah. That's why I am happy. However if Kamala can have 4 jabs and still get it and that J&J is I think pulled, well not sure if it was a resounding success.

I still am adamant that we are at our current juncture due to a very mild strain being introduced and that it was high contagious. Vaccine obviously helped but without Omnicron, we would still be where we were at November 2021. In other words, the vaccine was like UK and USA with Normandy invasion. Omnicron was the USSR which really broke Germany's back. Just my MMQB. I know its likely not popular here.

That said I do believe we need to streamline the process. I imagine money is the reason why they don't approve stuff in a quick matter. Given my choice of your preferred method or current, I will take yours

We've talked about this, though. It was 95% effective against infection in trials and essentially stayed there for the OG virus. We are 10+ major variants down the line, now and each of those is a series of major mutations, which means the vaccine is only attacking it partially, which lessens effectiveness. The reason we didn't adopt variant-specific changes to the vaccine is that the OG is still the most broadly effective. In other words, if you get an Omicron specific vaccine, it's not going to do a good job against previous variants nor, likely, variants immediately to come. It also would take too much time to do one.

Imagine intercepting something in code and then cracking the code, but instead of the code staying static, a third of the letters are now a different code for future messages. Your original key can only do 2/3 of the message now. There was nothing wrong with your original key. The code changed, though.