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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    My advice to anyone that wants to make more money: take a coding class and change careers. If you can do full stack development you are going to make a great living. If you are a US citizen you already have a leg up on most of the competition. Here in the midwest where the cost of living is less than much of the country, a mid-level full stack developer (4-6 years of experience) can make well into the 6 figures.
    What about the remaining 99.5% of the population? Donít get me wrong, itís a great career but most people can barely surf the web let alone code.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    For me it's not about making more money. It's about the government taking less money from those of us who make a good wage but not THAT great of a wage.

    It's that area where you make enough to live SOMEWHAT comfortably but not enough to really go to the next level without help. We are the people getting hosed. We make too much for government help and we make not enough for societal needs such as housing etc. A one bedroom apartment that costs $1400 is criminal.

    You're Gucci if you're poor or rich but the in between?
    Yeah the cost of living is crazy. I don't know how people that live in these high cost areas do it. Here in the suburbs of St. Louis, that $1400 a month is a mortgage on a nice house. Then again, we don't have mountains, nice weather, or anything that naturally draws people to the area.

    I don't know how they find, for example, restaurant workers in San Francisco. There's no way you can afford to live anywhere close to downtown or in Silicon Valley on that wage scale.

    As for your total tax bill, you also have to consider the difference between local, state, and federal taxes. Local taxes can nail you for things like property taxes depending on where you live or an earnings tax. State's have their own brackets for income tax. Then there's federal which includes the income tax, social security, and medicare witholdings. Basically those last two are not coming back to you and are paid into the existing system, so the federal income tax is what you have to calculate. If you're anything like me, once you factor in how much you actually paid in federal taxes and then subtract your return, you are probably paying less income tax than you think. You may even be getting more than what you pay into it.

    I forget the actual numbers, but the top 1 percent of earners pay more federal income tax than the bottom 90% of earners combined. It's a very progressive tax structure as it turns out. The bottom 50% pay like 2 or 3% of the total income taxes.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    For me it's not about making more money. It's about the government taking less money from those of us who make a good wage but not THAT great of a wage.

    It's that area where you make enough to live SOMEWHAT comfortably but not enough to really go to the next level without help. We are the people getting hosed. We make too much for government help and we make not enough for societal needs such as housing etc. A one bedroom apartment that costs $1400 is criminal.

    You're Gucci if you're poor or rich but the in between?
    While I dont disagree that the Middle Class is eroding in the US, from what I'm seeing and hearing. Whats your definition of the next level? Personally, if you're living somewhat comfortably you're better off than 80% of humans on this planet and in your country. If you're making a decent salary, I'm not sure how that rent isn't doable. Yeah, your lifestyle might have to change a bit. But I imagine it's more than doable.

    I pay $2000 per month for my one bedroom condo. If the market will bear that and the demand is there (and it fucking is, in our city), that's the market rate. I'm not sure one could call it criminal. Something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.

    It's not really the Government's job to shift the amount of their support with the fluctuations in the real estate/leasing market. Yeah I dont have as much left over to save because of the ent expense and my monthly's, but I cut back on my incidentals/none necessaries and I try to save enough for my RRSP, what I can.
    My man, when you are fantasizing, don't go for attainable, you can get attainable at the local Applebee's. - Dave's Dreidel

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAD-1972 View Post
    What about the remaining 99.5% of the population? Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great career but most people can barely surf the web let alone code.
    There's other options out there, obviously, that was just an example and one that I see every day. Become an accountant. Get your PMP and become a project manager. There's all sorts of options out there, but they do require initiative and there's always risk involved. For most people, they want to make more money doing what they already know because there's less inherent risk. With that you have two options: 1) work more (overtime if it's offered) or perform better (if performance = more money), or 2) move up to the ladder. Neither is an easy proposition obviously but that's where most people find themselves.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    Yeah the cost of living is crazy. I don't know how people that live in these high cost areas do it. Here in the suburbs of St. Louis, that $1400 a month is a mortgage on a nice house. Then again, we don't have mountains, nice weather, or anything that naturally draws people to the area.

    I don't know how they find, for example, restaurant workers in San Francisco. There's no way you can afford to live anywhere close to downtown or in Silicon Valley on that wage scale.

    As for your total tax bill, you also have to consider the difference between local, state, and federal taxes. Local taxes can nail you for things like property taxes depending on where you live or an earnings tax. State's have their own brackets for income tax. Then there's federal which includes the income tax, social security, and medicare witholdings. Basically those last two are not coming back to you and are paid into the existing system, so the federal income tax is what you have to calculate. If you're anything like me, once you factor in how much you actually paid in federal taxes and then subtract your return, you are probably paying less income tax than you think. You may even be getting more than what you pay into it.

    I forget the actual numbers, but the top 1 percent of earners pay more federal income tax than the bottom 90% of earners combined. It's a very progressive tax structure as it turns out. The bottom 50% pay like 2 or 3% of the total income taxes.
    Our mortgage is $1700 a month and that includes monthly escrow for the property tax bill. We have 2,100 square feet, a three car garage, a pool in the back yard, and two side yards, one play area and one opposite the pool for gathering, including a gazebo. We also bought at significantly less than we could have borrowed.

    We live in the desert, which most of California is, and it gets hot (over 100 degrees) and cold (can get into the 20s at night at times). There is ZERO culture here and the landscape is blah outside of joshua trees. BUT, we have gorgeous mountains with SoCal's hottest ski resorts within 45 minutes by car. Famous California beaches and Orange County are 85 minutes away. Depending upon traffic, LA is 90 minutes away. We visit Disneyland twice a month when it isn't 2020 or 2021. Vegas is 2.5 hours away by car, San Diego about the same in the opposite direction.

    Now, you go 35 minutes closer to Los Angeles or about 20 minutes east of the San Bernardino terrorist attack and mortgages go up by $1,000 a month for a smaller house. And it keeps going up the closer you get.

    I have friends who do NOT want to live where we do and prefer spending more than we do on an apartment just to be in a bigger metro area. I also have friends who moved to Texas. Beaches, mountains, etc., wasn't important. So they have a 50% larger house on larger property for 40% less than our mortgage. We have close friends who moved to Seattle suburbs where there were more job opportunities. They pay more for a similar apartment, but they make more.

    This is a long way to get to that there are costs and trade offs. And statistically people are less likely to move for opportunities. I get it. It can be hard. But there are places with lower costs of living that are looking for people and can't get them. I mean, some states are even paying people to live in their state to telecommute to another for work. Decide what your trade offs are and understand you are trading off, but also change can be hard (moving) but is usually a net positive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    There's other options out there, obviously, that was just an example and one that I see every day. Become an accountant. Get your PMP and become a project manager. There's all sorts of options out there, but they do require initiative and there's always risk involved. For most people, they want to make more money doing what they already know because there's less inherent risk. With that you have two options: 1) work more (overtime if it's offered) or perform better (if performance = more money), or 2) move up to the ladder. Neither is an easy proposition obviously but that's where most people find themselves.
    Iím not dismissing what you said but unfortunately everything you said with the exception of hard work is geared towards middle management. Thatís the rub...the grunt will always be a grunt. Might work his ass off for someone else so their bottom line is rewarded but heís always expendable and made to feel that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAD-1972 View Post
    I’m not dismissing what you said but unfortunately everything you said with the exception of hard work is geared towards middle management. That’s the rub...the grunt will always be a grunt. Might work his ass off for someone else so their bottom line is rewarded but he’s always expendable and made to feel that way.
    Everyone is expendable, unfortunately, even top managers. The idea is that if you are in a position where you can't move out of the "grunt" role in your line of work and you're unhappy, it's time for a career change. If you're happy, then stay around. There's no guarantees in life in any role. I've talked to people that have given a role their all for 20 years but get cut simply because their company is merging with someone else or there's some new manager that wants to bring in his own team. The days where you work your way up in a company and stay there for 40 years are gone. We as workers have to be selfish and move when the opportunity is better because the "company" is not going to feel any loyalty to you (mostly because management changes every 3-5 years anyway).
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    For me it's not about making more money. It's about the government taking less money from those of us who make a good wage but not THAT great of a wage.

    It's that area where you make enough to live SOMEWHAT comfortably but not enough to really go to the next level without help. We are the people getting hosed. We make too much for government help and we make not enough for societal needs such as housing etc. A one bedroom apartment that costs $1400 is criminal.

    You're Gucci if you're poor or rich but the in between?
    No argument from me. But hereís the thing, itís about to get worse. Past has dictated that taxes will go up with a New Democrat in office.

    It frustrates the shut out of me as well that folks can have 97 children and live in a shoe but only work 9 hours a week and get food stamps and welfare. Pisses me off as someone who works. Should you too. But the fact is that we cannot change that. Itís a loosing battle. So, do what you can do.

    If you are getting ass slapped by taxes, change the 0 to a 1. Youíll still get a refund but youíll get more in each check. Social security you canít do shit about unless you start working for the railroad.


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    I do have to clarify. I'm not broke but any means. I'm conformable for NOW.

    I have a nice safety net and could pay rent for 6 months and then some should I be out of work.

    My credit is 825.

    I still feel broke. What does that say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    I do have to clarify. I'm not broke but any means. I'm conformable for NOW.

    I have a nice safety net and could pay rent for 6 months and then some should I be out of work.

    My credit is 825.

    I still feel broke. What does that say?
    That's a good thing.

    It's the people that have $3.00 in their account and spend like they have what you have that's the problem.
    Cabo x 25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    Everyone is expendable, unfortunately, even top managers. The idea is that if you are in a position where you can't move out of the "grunt" role in your line of work and you're unhappy, it's time for a career change. If you're happy, then stay around. There's no guarantees in life in any role. I've talked to people that have given a role their all for 20 years but get cut simply because their company is merging with someone else or there's some new manager that wants to bring in his own team. The days where you work your way up in a company and stay there for 40 years are gone. We as workers have to be selfish and move when the opportunity is better because the "company" is not going to feel any loyalty to you (mostly because management changes every 3-5 years anyway).
    I know a guy who started to work for A&P as a cart guy in the 1950s. He went on to be store manager, regional manager, then vice president of the company until Tengelmann bought them out. . He always tells me the same thing as you just opined.
    10-6-2020 RIP King of sixstrings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    I do have to clarify. I'm not broke but any means. I'm conformable for NOW.

    I have a nice safety net and could pay rent for 6 months and then some should I be out of work.

    My credit is 825.

    I still feel broke. What does that say?
    Curious, you're in Reno, NV, right? Would you be able to do what you do for a similar wage but in a place where the cost of living is lower?

    For us, median home price in California is $580,000. Where I live, it's $330,000.

    We can both make about what we make in most places. If we went to, say, Orange County, cost of living would go way, way up and while we would be surrounded by more culture and things to do, we'd have less disposable income, a smaller, older house, despite the fact we'd both be getting (small) raises. If we moved to Texas, I would make a little less, but the cost of living would drop so much we'd have a bigger house and more disposable income, and just like we are now we would have access to major city stuff within a half hour drive.

    We've actually had this conversation before, that if the right opportunity arose, we would be willing to move to certain places, and our families wouldn't be far behind, precisely because the cost of living would make enough of a difference to finally leave California.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    I do have to clarify. I'm not broke but any means. I'm conformable for NOW.

    I have a nice safety net and could pay rent for 6 months and then some should I be out of work.

    My credit is 825.

    I still feel broke. What does that say?
    Ok hereís the question though, what would you do if uncle chuck deposits 2000 in your account?


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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    I do have to clarify. I'm not broke but any means. I'm conformable for NOW.

    I have a nice safety net and could pay rent for 6 months and then some should I be out of work.

    My credit is 825.

    I still feel broke. What does that say?
    that's just human nature my friend. If I would have told you 5 years ago that you'd be in the spot you are in now, would you have considered yourself broke? If your pay was doubled tomorrow, 6 months later you'd feel the same way you do now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    No argument from me. But here’s the thing, it’s about to get worse. Past has dictated that taxes will go up with a New Democrat in office.

    It frustrates the shut out of me as well that folks can have 97 children and live in a shoe but only work 9 hours a week and get food stamps and welfare. Pisses me off as someone who works. Should you too. But the fact is that we cannot change that. It’s a loosing battle. So, do what you can do.

    If you are getting ass slapped by taxes, change the 0 to a 1. You’ll still get a refund but you’ll get more in each check. Social security you can’t do shit about unless you start working for the railroad.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The US government should have done much more to help people who lost their jobs and had their businesses impacted during this time. I'm not a big fan of just giving everyone 2,000 as it means people who weren't financially impacted get it but to be honest it's better they do that than they do nothing.

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