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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    I saw Yngwie at a little club in Pasadena, CA called The Rose last May. His technique and speed was superb, but it got old pretty quickly.
    I can see that happening.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DFVH5150 View Post
    Yes, but THAT much more proficient technically is what I'm asking? I thought it was smaller than larger margin.
    Since you and I have both mentioned technical proficiency and not songwriting, again I'll say yes. Hell, even Eddie himself admitted back in the late 80's that "I'm not the fastest cat around anymore..."

    There's no shame in admitting it. It's evolution. Then you get us 30/40/50 year old guys who've tried for decades with varying degrees of success to nail EVH licks, and there's an 8yr old Asian girl playing it faster cleaner and better. Then she'll nail ultra technical stuff by Bach, and Paganini etc. The technique bar has been raised since Eddie's innovations. The innovations are unmatched, yet the techniques to perform them have been honed and refined to a higher level. Eddie is the best at being Eddie, when it comes to his style and he's my favorite guitarist, yet again some get the lines between 'favorite' and 'best' confused and blurred.

    I've played many Van Halen songs live, and pretty much got very close to nailing the solos more often than not. Even got compliments on doing so on several occasions. I have never been able to play an Yngwie tune from start to finish, and believe me - I tried!!!!!

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  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    IMO, Eddie was way more innovative than Yngwie. Also, songs are what ultimately matter, not how fast you can play a harmonic minor scale.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRvh1 View Post
    There are many guitar players more technical than Eddie, yet several wouldn't say that in print because it's not the status quo thing to do, and they revere him and his innovations - rightly so.

    In terms of shredding/technique and coming up with endless lines on a whim? If a "head cutting" contest had Ed, Yngwie, Vai, Kotzen, Gilbert - Ed wouldn't even take home a bronze medal. IMO.

    Having said that, EVH is my favourite guitarist of all time. That will never change, yet some often get 'favorite' and 'best' blurred. Again, IMO.
    Who else would beat Eddie in that category? Nuno, Satch, Eric Johnson, and that guy who looks weird with bulging muscles playing guitar from Dream Theatre? Any hair metal guys?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRvh1 View Post
    Since you and I have both mentioned technical proficiency and not songwriting, again I'll say yes. Hell, even Eddie himself admitted back in the late 80's that "I'm not the fastest cat around anymore..."

    There's no shame in admitting it. It's evolution. Then you get us 30/40/50 year old guys who've tried for decades with varying degrees of success to nail EVH licks, and there's an 8yr old Asian girl playing it faster cleaner and better. Then she'll nail ultra technical stuff by Bach, and Paganini etc. The technique bar has been raised since Eddie's innovations. The innovations are unmatched, yet the techniques to perform them have been honed and refined to a higher level. Eddie is the best at being Eddie, when it comes to his style and he's my favorite guitarist, yet again some get the lines between 'favorite' and 'best' confused and blurred.

    I've played many Van Halen songs live, and pretty much got very close to nailing the solos more often than not. Even got compliments on doing so on several occasions. I have never been able to play an Yngwie tune from start to finish, and believe me - I tried!!!!!
    True guitar playing evolution has nothing to do with speed or technical precision. There are nine year old Asian girls that can outplay you, me, Eddie, and Yngwie. Most gunslingers will argue all day long that it's never been about tech proficiency or speed, it's always been about SOUL. Playing from the heart. That's why all your hair metal bands suck, btw. Because they have none of that. You can replicate a song note for note, you can play it faster, but you'll never be able to reproduce Eddie's licks because he's the only one who can. Because his songs stem from something beyond finger hand coordination.

    That's largely why true gunslinging has DEVOLVED, not EVOLVED. When was the last time someone like Eddie blazed through the ranks, crossing genres and generations alike? That's right, he was the last one. You don't see Malmsteen being invited to play a solo on JayZ's new album, do ya. 'Best' isn't defined by technics, it's defined by heart. That's why the greats stand unmatched by the B generations like Malmsteen, Vai, Nuno, Wylde, Hammett, etc. Their play, while brilliantly executed, rings hollow...because they can't reproduce the souls of the masters...Clapton, Page, Hendrix, Richards. A tasty lick rings true because of heart, not because of replicated pentatonics or homages to classical music scales and progressions.

    Personally, in terms of the Hard Rock arena...not metal, not hair metal, not speed metal, and not the blues, because any number of bluesmen have that genre of gunslinging covered quite easily...but in terms of hard rock (which is simply a more bombastic sphere of the blues, let's face it)...I seriously doubt anyone comes close to Page, Clapton, SRV, and EVH. They are, for lack of a better term, the soul of hard rock.

    In my opinion.

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    I think Ed has been hard on himself the last twenty or so years and that's probably why we haven't heard much.

    He's made mention that he's tried to do covers and they all sound like him- no matter what. He's also mentioned that he can't read music. I think these two factors have taken a toll on him. Personally, I don't give a shit about either of those two reasons and I don't think the rest of the fan base cares about that either.

    Ed, if you're reading this- who cares about those factors? The music is unique, raw and soooo cool. Please don't ditch us. I'd love to hear noodling. Put out a solo album. Do something. Anything. I know the desire is there.

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    A songwriter, guitar player, innovator....

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    Quote Originally Posted by RRvh1 View Post
    I recently got How the West Was Won, by Led Zeppelin. Page sounded great on there, and was superb at improvisation in a live setting. I think the "two years old with a broken hand" comments were unjust and a bit of a cheap shot.

    In comparison (guitar technique, not songwriting), guys like Yngwie could say that Eddie live sounds like a four year old with a sprained wrist. Haha.
    No way, man.

    These guys from late 1970s/early 1980s (and beyond) love Edward Van Halen. They all know the importance of EVH - music, technique or crafting stuff for the instrument itself.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    Technically, there are few as brilliant as Yngwie.

    His ability to swing, or ďfeelĒ or write a killer song can be debated because thatís subjective.


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    Eddie is who he is for a few reasons.

    1. He can write songs that sell
    2. Heís an amazing rhythm player
    3. Heís a jaw dropping lead guitarist
    4. His tone
    5. His equipment
    6. He can play keys
    7. His innovations
    8. The fact that damn near everyone in the 80ís was hugging his nuts


    Other guitarists are faster. Youíre correct. But Eddie has the trifecta. He can do it all. Thatís worth itís weight in mur.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Eddie is who he is for a few reasons.

    1. He can write songs that sell
    2. Heís an amazing rhythm player
    3. Heís a jaw dropping lead guitarist
    4. His tone
    5. His equipment
    6. He can play keys
    7. His innovations
    8. The fact that damn near everyone in the 80ís was hugging his nuts


    Other guitarists are faster. Youíre correct. But Eddie has the trifecta. He can do it all. Thatís worth itís weight in mur.


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    Absolutely. Speed doesnít mean anything, if you donít have anything to say.

    Yngwie doesnít fall in that category for me, but to others he might not speak to them because heís neo-classical.


    Ed never had to play fast to say something. A big part of that was because he schooled himself on guys like Clapton. Eddie cut his teeth on the blues and almost all his solos, fills, riffs are rooted heavily in the blues.

    He, like Gilmour, like Clapton, like Beck, like Page, can say more with 3 notes than most can say with 25.

    The majority of guitar players cannot.


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    Going to be the odd guy out...well maybe devil's advocate because I do truly believe that speed for speeds sake gets old very very quickly. However so does a guy who has to play quarter notes in every solo. In most music genres outside of rock and blues, you get respect due to your chops. I know people will attribute that to only classical due to Paganinni and Lizst but its true with jazz, country, ragtime and even in R&B. Obviously there are outliers or exceptions that can break through but typically if you have chops, you will get noticed.

    Charlie Parker, Coleman Hawkins, Satchmo, hell every jazz musician in the 20's up to probably now has entertained in after hour clubs cutting heads up on stage. I know Coleman Hawkins used to seek out clubs to do this back in the day. Got into a few pissing contests with his rivals.

    Same with other forms of art like dance. You have to have technique and emotion to be great. I may dance with as much emotion as Carlton but you have to have technique like to be recognized as great. You need both. While Lizst, Chopin and Paganini are often credited for being way beyond everybody with classical technique, you still have to have chops if you were performing. Beethoven, Mozart and Bach were pretty damned good instrumentalists. Some of Mozart's works have blank piano parts because when he wrote them out, they simply were for him to improvise when he was conducting. Another misnomer about classical. These guys usually did improvise. Take Bach and his fugues. He could go on and on improvising a fugue. Not only left and right hands but he would use his feet to play the bass pedals. I know today we marvel at Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson playing their instruments and using foot pedals. To be an organist you have to do this. those guys back in the day would improvise with their feet.

    Yes I know we are talking about Rock and Blues but its music. There is a reason why everybody loved Robert Johnson and thought he was the best. Its not because he had soul. It was because he improved greatly with his technique in such a short time, they thought he sold his soul. He was hands down better than his contemporaries. Same with Hendrix. Sure he is incredibly soulful but he had technique that was simply beyond what Clapton was doing.

    Now obviously speed for speed sake isn't the end all be all. Paganini did so much more than what Yngwie took from him. Like Lizst and Chopin. Yngwie simply took the speed, harmonic minor and flamboyancy and forgot the rest. Paganini has some of the most emotional violin pieces that nobody ever has heard because they know one Caprice from Crossroads

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Going to be the odd guy out...well maybe devil's advocate because I do truly believe that speed for speeds sake gets old very very quickly. However so does a guy who has to play quarter notes in every solo. In most music genres outside of rock and blues, you get respect due to your chops. I know people will attribute that to only classical due to Paganinni and Lizst but its true with jazz, country, ragtime and even in R&B. Obviously there are outliers or exceptions that can break through but typically if you have chops, you will get noticed.

    Charlie Parker, Coleman Hawkins, Satchmo, hell every jazz musician in the 20's up to probably now has entertained in after hour clubs cutting heads up on stage. I know Coleman Hawkins used to seek out clubs to do this back in the day. Got into a few pissing contests with his rivals.

    Same with other forms of art like dance. You have to have technique and emotion to be great. I may dance with as much emotion as Carlton but you have to have technique like to be recognized as great. You need both. While Lizst, Chopin and Paganini are often credited for being way beyond everybody with classical technique, you still have to have chops if you were performing. Beethoven, Mozart and Bach were pretty damned good instrumentalists. Some of Mozart's works have blank piano parts because when he wrote them out, they simply were for him to improvise when he was conducting. Another misnomer about classical. These guys usually did improvise. Take Bach and his fugues. He could go on and on improvising a fugue. Not only left and right hands but he would use his feet to play the bass pedals. I know today we marvel at Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson playing their instruments and using foot pedals. To be an organist you have to do this. those guys back in the day would improvise with their feet.

    Yes I know we are talking about Rock and Blues but its music. There is a reason why everybody loved Robert Johnson and thought he was the best. Its not because he had soul. It was because he improved greatly with his technique in such a short time, they thought he sold his soul. He was hands down better than his contemporaries. Same with Hendrix. Sure he is incredibly soulful but he had technique that was simply beyond what Clapton was doing.

    Now obviously speed for speed sake isn't the end all be all. Paganini did so much more than what Yngwie took from him. Like Lizst and Chopin. Yngwie simply took the speed, harmonic minor and flamboyancy and forgot the rest. Paganini has some of the most emotional violin pieces that nobody ever has heard because they know one Caprice from Crossroads
    Chopin is my mom's favorite composer …

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    I know Zakk Wylde gets a lot of grief on here from some. Cue up his instrumental '"Farm Fiddlin'" from the Guitars That Rule the World cd and listen to the intro. Clean tone, chicken pickin' in the southern country style. Still gunslinging, just not in a hard rock vein until the heavy stuff kicks in. Zakk is using a plectrum and his middle & ring fingers on his picking hand to articulate those licks and banjo style rolls. Does anyone actually think Eddie could play like that, with that much finesse and speed? I'm going to go with 'No'.

    Again, there's no shame in admitting that Eddie isn't the most technical guitarist. He's the most iconic (I personally put him above Hendrix), and the most copied etc.

    And again, not talking about songs, tone, stripes, signature gear etc.
    Last edited by RRvh1; 03.19.20 at 11:58 AM.

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    I don't think anyone said speed and technical proficiency were that important. We all know why Eddie's the best, and that ain't why.
    Last edited by DFVH5150; 03.19.20 at 02:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Eddie is who he is for a few reasons.

    1. He can write songs that sell
    2. He’s an amazing rhythm player
    3. He’s a jaw dropping lead guitarist
    4. His tone
    5. His equipment
    6. He can play keys
    7. His innovations
    8. The fact that damn near everyone in the 80’s was hugging his nuts


    Other guitarists are faster. You’re correct. But Eddie has the trifecta. He can do it all. That’s worth it’s weight in mur.


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    Don't forget his second-to-none stage moves.
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    DAVE SOLO: 14x
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    MET: Sammy 1x, Dave almost 1x, Gary 2x

 

 

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