2020 CoronaVirus Outbreak - That began in Wuhan, China and is spreading - Page 881
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  1. #13201
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    Because many believe Bill Gates is going to track and kill you with it or that Covid doesn't exist, unfortunately.
    You mean he's not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    You mean he's not.

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    I think it's a consequence of a number of things. Some people think they are getting a chip implanted, but that's the extreme minority and not really a huge factor. Most of the people simply don't trust the review process and are worried about long term side effects. Minority communities have long been skeptical of the US government when it comes to this stuff thanks to some horrific and immoral tests done in the past. Others are looking at a group of "experts" that first told us masks weren't necessary and didn't do any good only to change their story a few weeks later and wondering if they're being misled again. There's so much misinformation happening on social media and it's going to be an uphill battle to get everyone's crazy uncle/aunt on board.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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    On top of what bsbll4 said, which he is 100% right, they are underselling the vaccine. Yes, we did not test whether or not you could still infect other people if you are vaccinated and don't get sick.

    So, also, yes, if you're a person that relies upon data before saying yes or no, you're going to say we don't know. But if this vaccine didn't do that, it would basically be the first time ever. In other words, if this is like every other vaccine ever, if you get the vaccine, you won't spread COVID to others.

    That means, unless something happens that hasn't happened before, once the vaccine takes effect, you could actually start doing things that you haven't been able to do since last March. With mutations, this will likely become another yearly vaccine we all need to take, and even if efficacy becomes like the flu shot, if enough people get it, it won't matter. And as long is it prevents severe infection, at worst you just get a little sick. You won't end up on a ventilator with a 50/50 shot at dying.

    In other words, the vaccines are the cure.

    And this is one are where I really hate what the press has done. "______ number of people die after receiving vaccine." Then, in paragraph 10, it's actually only a third of those people where it was actually the vaccine (the rest they would have died anyway), and if you extrapolate that out to society as a whole, those deaths aren't unusual. Which means it isn't a story!

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    A few weeks after getting your 2nd dose, it's over 90% effective.

    That's a damn effective vaccine in such a short duration.

    That's the shit they should be saying on the news every night, not Michelle Obama wore to the Inauguration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    A few weeks after getting your 2nd dose, it's over 90% effective.

    That's a damn effective vaccine in such a short duration.

    That's the shit they should be saying on the news every night, not Michelle Obama wore to the Inauguration.
    Absolutely. But I also have people telling me "we have no idea if you will still be contagious even if vaccinated and not sick," so we need a cure not just the vaccine. And while that is technically true, it would be the first time a vaccine ever acted that way.

    I'm almost on board with some proposals I have heard which is to pay people to get it.

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    Since we're just sending people money otherwise, why not put some strings attached to it?
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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    To give you an idea of what we're up against, my brothers just texted about Hank Aaron dying. One pointed out that he had the vaccine 17 days ago.

    Another talked about 50 people died in Norway after taking the vaccine. What he left out was that they vaccinated all of the people in old folk homes in Norway and about 400 die on average across the country each week, so yeah, some people are going to die after taking the vaccine.

    It's that type of crap that is just being thrown around and people get just enough skepticism that they say "no thanks."
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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    I am sorry but I do believe there are grey areas with the vaccine and its acceptance. On one hand you think its Bill Gates, 5G, mark of the devil, NWO, etc. Ok maybe a bit off but no different than people who believe 9-11 was fake. However I don't think our government and associated health agencies are beyond reproach. I mean I have heard for decades that the government is preventing weed from being used for medicinal purposes. Same with subscribing Opioids. I mean in 2017, CNN had this article

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/healt...udy/index.html

    This was done prior to any issues with COVID> 1/3rd of the time, FDA screws up. You have stuff like thalidomide. If they screw up when they have a longer testing period, how will they respond to a crisis? One managed by people who work for Trump

    Then think of how one trusts the government. Democrats and Republicans have lied to us to push their agendas. They both never waste a crisis. Gulf of Tonkin. Iran Hostage Iran Contra. Waco. 2nd Gulf War. Health Care Reform, etc. Its pretty clear that our government isn't exactly truthful. Not that they always lie but there is ample evidence that they stretch the truth.

    Then you add the Trump factor. Democrats just in September were questioning if any vaccine under Trump is trustworthy. Prominent Democrats. In Ohio as of a few weeks ago 60% of health care workers REFUSED the vaccine. These are not uneducated personnel who work in lets say auto sales. These are the people who have faced COVID day after day since March.

    Plus look at the hypocrisy of how federal, state and local government have handled this. Masks are bad. Then they are good. Herd immunity bad. Then good. Now bad. Lockdowns good. Lockdowns are bad. Remember all the people wearing gloves at the gas station? Remember how we had to wipe down surfaces? Both discarded. Quarantine periods have been reduced. Now there are new strains.

    Now I am not saying that all of this means the vaccines are useless. I am just saying that there are valid reasons then to implicitly trust your President, Governor, CDCC, etc just because they say so. People have been throwing darts for almost a year with most of them missing the dart board. So if somebody decides not to take it, I can't call them an idiot until I hear them out. If they think its 5G, yeah but there are valid concerns.

    I wonder how people would feel if the first people to get the shot were kids under 10 years of age? Would you be so supportive of that? My mom who did get the vaccine made a great point to me. She is 83. She said "I don't care if I get cancer in 10 years." Elderly don't have to worry about it plus they are far more likely to die. I am going to get it whenever it becomes available but I am still going to be curious what the long term effects are. History has shown us long term effects are possible. Therefore possible with this. Being concerned with that doesn't make one a crackpot

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    I am sorry but I do believe there are grey areas with the vaccine and its acceptance. On one hand you think its Bill Gates, 5G, mark of the devil, NWO, etc. Ok maybe a bit off but no different than people who believe 9-11 was fake. However I don't think our government and associated health agencies are beyond reproach. I mean I have heard for decades that the government is preventing weed from being used for medicinal purposes. Same with subscribing Opioids. I mean in 2017, CNN had this article

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/healt...udy/index.html

    This was done prior to any issues with COVID> 1/3rd of the time, FDA screws up. You have stuff like thalidomide. If they screw up when they have a longer testing period, how will they respond to a crisis? One managed by people who work for Trump

    Then think of how one trusts the government. Democrats and Republicans have lied to us to push their agendas. They both never waste a crisis. Gulf of Tonkin. Iran Hostage Iran Contra. Waco. 2nd Gulf War. Health Care Reform, etc. Its pretty clear that our government isn't exactly truthful. Not that they always lie but there is ample evidence that they stretch the truth.

    Then you add the Trump factor. Democrats just in September were questioning if any vaccine under Trump is trustworthy. Prominent Democrats. In Ohio as of a few weeks ago 60% of health care workers REFUSED the vaccine. These are not uneducated personnel who work in lets say auto sales. These are the people who have faced COVID day after day since March.

    Plus look at the hypocrisy of how federal, state and local government have handled this. Masks are bad. Then they are good. Herd immunity bad. Then good. Now bad. Lockdowns good. Lockdowns are bad. Remember all the people wearing gloves at the gas station? Remember how we had to wipe down surfaces? Both discarded. Quarantine periods have been reduced. Now there are new strains.

    Now I am not saying that all of this means the vaccines are useless. I am just saying that there are valid reasons then to implicitly trust your President, Governor, CDCC, etc just because they say so. People have been throwing darts for almost a year with most of them missing the dart board. So if somebody decides not to take it, I can't call them an idiot until I hear them out. If they think its 5G, yeah but there are valid concerns.

    I wonder how people would feel if the first people to get the shot were kids under 10 years of age? Would you be so supportive of that? My mom who did get the vaccine made a great point to me. She is 83. She said "I don't care if I get cancer in 10 years." Elderly don't have to worry about it plus they are far more likely to die. I am going to get it whenever it becomes available but I am still going to be curious what the long term effects are. History has shown us long term effects are possible. Therefore possible with this. Being concerned with that doesn't make one a crackpot

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    I am sorry but I do believe there are grey areas with the vaccine and its acceptance. On one hand you think its Bill Gates, 5G, mark of the devil, NWO, etc. Ok maybe a bit off but no different than people who believe 9-11 was fake. However I don't think our government and associated health agencies are beyond reproach. I mean I have heard for decades that the government is preventing weed from being used for medicinal purposes. Same with subscribing Opioids. I mean in 2017, CNN had this article

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/healt...udy/index.html

    This was done prior to any issues with COVID> 1/3rd of the time, FDA screws up. You have stuff like thalidomide. If they screw up when they have a longer testing period, how will they respond to a crisis? One managed by people who work for Trump

    Then think of how one trusts the government. Democrats and Republicans have lied to us to push their agendas. They both never waste a crisis. Gulf of Tonkin. Iran Hostage Iran Contra. Waco. 2nd Gulf War. Health Care Reform, etc. Its pretty clear that our government isn't exactly truthful. Not that they always lie but there is ample evidence that they stretch the truth.

    Then you add the Trump factor. Democrats just in September were questioning if any vaccine under Trump is trustworthy. Prominent Democrats. In Ohio as of a few weeks ago 60% of health care workers REFUSED the vaccine. These are not uneducated personnel who work in lets say auto sales. These are the people who have faced COVID day after day since March.

    Plus look at the hypocrisy of how federal, state and local government have handled this. Masks are bad. Then they are good. Herd immunity bad. Then good. Now bad. Lockdowns good. Lockdowns are bad. Remember all the people wearing gloves at the gas station? Remember how we had to wipe down surfaces? Both discarded. Quarantine periods have been reduced. Now there are new strains.

    Now I am not saying that all of this means the vaccines are useless. I am just saying that there are valid reasons then to implicitly trust your President, Governor, CDCC, etc just because they say so. People have been throwing darts for almost a year with most of them missing the dart board. So if somebody decides not to take it, I can't call them an idiot until I hear them out. If they think its 5G, yeah but there are valid concerns.

    I wonder how people would feel if the first people to get the shot were kids under 10 years of age? Would you be so supportive of that? My mom who did get the vaccine made a great point to me. She is 83. She said "I don't care if I get cancer in 10 years." Elderly don't have to worry about it plus they are far more likely to die. I am going to get it whenever it becomes available but I am still going to be curious what the long term effects are. History has shown us long term effects are possible. Therefore possible with this. Being concerned with that doesn't make one a crackpot
    It's ok to be skeptical, but you have to be open to reason. Much of the early reactions to the virus (wiping down every surface, wearing gloves, not wearing a mask then wearing a mask) is mostly because it was a new virus and they didn't know how it actually spread. Once the science became a little more settled the advice has been more consistent. As for the lockdowns, we've never had these before so no one knew how effective they would be. As it turns out they aren't that effective (as many have argued all along, I should point out).

    If it was just one group pushing this, I would join some of your skepticism, but we have health agencies all around the world signing off on these vaccines through multiple trials. If there was something to hide, they wouldn't be talking about the rare cases of people having allergic reactions to a bad batch, or halting the trial in the UK because a person came down with muscular dystrophy, etc.

    I trust that people that have studied this far more than I have to make the call for the same reason I don't stand on the porch during a tornado siren and say "bullshit, prove it."
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    I am sorry but I do believe there are grey areas with the vaccine and its acceptance. On one hand you think its Bill Gates, 5G, mark of the devil, NWO, etc. Ok maybe a bit off but no different than people who believe 9-11 was fake. However I don't think our government and associated health agencies are beyond reproach. I mean I have heard for decades that the government is preventing weed from being used for medicinal purposes. Same with subscribing Opioids. I mean in 2017, CNN had this article

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/healt...udy/index.html

    This was done prior to any issues with COVID> 1/3rd of the time, FDA screws up. You have stuff like thalidomide. If they screw up when they have a longer testing period, how will they respond to a crisis? One managed by people who work for Trump

    Then think of how one trusts the government. Democrats and Republicans have lied to us to push their agendas. They both never waste a crisis. Gulf of Tonkin. Iran Hostage Iran Contra. Waco. 2nd Gulf War. Health Care Reform, etc. Its pretty clear that our government isn't exactly truthful. Not that they always lie but there is ample evidence that they stretch the truth.

    Then you add the Trump factor. Democrats just in September were questioning if any vaccine under Trump is trustworthy. Prominent Democrats. In Ohio as of a few weeks ago 60% of health care workers REFUSED the vaccine. These are not uneducated personnel who work in lets say auto sales. These are the people who have faced COVID day after day since March.

    Plus look at the hypocrisy of how federal, state and local government have handled this. Masks are bad. Then they are good. Herd immunity bad. Then good. Now bad. Lockdowns good. Lockdowns are bad. Remember all the people wearing gloves at the gas station? Remember how we had to wipe down surfaces? Both discarded. Quarantine periods have been reduced. Now there are new strains.

    Now I am not saying that all of this means the vaccines are useless. I am just saying that there are valid reasons then to implicitly trust your President, Governor, CDCC, etc just because they say so. People have been throwing darts for almost a year with most of them missing the dart board. So if somebody decides not to take it, I can't call them an idiot until I hear them out. If they think its 5G, yeah but there are valid concerns.

    I wonder how people would feel if the first people to get the shot were kids under 10 years of age? Would you be so supportive of that? My mom who did get the vaccine made a great point to me. She is 83. She said "I don't care if I get cancer in 10 years." Elderly don't have to worry about it plus they are far more likely to die. I am going to get it whenever it becomes available but I am still going to be curious what the long term effects are. History has shown us long term effects are possible. Therefore possible with this. Being concerned with that doesn't make one a crackpot
    Of course not. If I had my way I would abolish the FDA or at least allow competition. And I would make approval voluntary. It sounds scary until you look at UL and electronics and how that entire system of testing is totally voluntary. One of Trump's best issues was "right to try."

    So to me it isn't about infallibility. It's more the opposite. Like the fact that we are saying it normally takes vaccines 10-14 years for FDA approval. Except with a bloated, government monopoly that's a fake number. It probably isn't a year, but it definitely isn't a decade, either.

    In this case, we left out things like long-term effects and whether or not you could still spread the disease even if the vaccine continues to make you sick. And we did that because the ill effects of the pandemic were worth bypassing those two issues. For one, nearly all ill effects happen in the first two months and we had two trials that surpassed that 2-month mark by last summer. And there hasn't been a vaccine that hasn't stopped the spread of disease, so this would be a first.

    So while I GET why people are nervous, I don't think there is much more reason to be, even accelerated, because of what we know about vaccines. Could there be longterm affects? Sure. Are they more likely than you dying of COVID at some point? Probably not, and the bodies piling up were not worth the risk.

    We have to differentiate between not knowing about this particular virus (wiping down surfaces, etc.) and outright lies (don't wear masks). Throwing everything we know about infectious disease made sense. Lying to people about it doesn't. We also need to transition to a risk assessment system. Even left leaders are speaking out against endless lockdowns. And that information is available. We can give people an idea of what is risky and what isn't.

    Leaders need to trust people, and neither party seems to, for different reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    A few weeks after getting your 2nd dose, it's over 90% effective.

    That's a damn effective vaccine in such a short duration.

    That's the shit they should be saying on the news every night, not Michelle Obama wore to the Inauguration.
    Instead, what we're getting on the news every night is "NEW VARIANT MUTANT STRAIN MAY BE MORE TRANSMISSIBLE AND MAY BE VACCINE RESISTANT!!! WILL WE RUN OUT OF VACCINES THIS WEEK?!?" This kind of downbeat agenda may be laying out the unvarnished truth to whatever degree but I'd argue the relentless 24/7 parade of these sort of headlines is counterproductive and doing long term damage to a lot of people's psyche.

  19. #13214
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    To give you an idea of what we're up against, my brothers just texted about Hank Aaron dying. One pointed out that he had the vaccine 17 days ago.

    Another talked about 50 people died in Norway after taking the vaccine. What he left out was that they vaccinated all of the people in old folk homes in Norway and about 400 die on average across the country each week, so yeah, some people are going to die after taking the vaccine.

    It's that type of crap that is just being thrown around and people get just enough skepticism that they say "no thanks."
    I am curious, does anyone know if Hank had had the second does of the Covid vaccine, before he died?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    If I had my way I would abolish the FDA.
    Take the CDC too.
    Last edited by Elwood P.; 01.23.21 at 07:30 AM.
    "I'm the opposite of Bill Cosby. Diamond Dave always gets your approval." (DLR)

    "Rawhide in "A"

    Tom Brady hates tomatoes

 

 

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