2020 CoronaVirus Outbreak - That began in Wuhan, China and is spreading - Page 1228
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  1. #18406
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    The thing about coming from an animal is that that's basically how all viruses that affect humans have started. It's not unreasonable to assume that since 99.99% of viruses get to humans that way, this one did, too.

    China being secretive isn't new. But with this report, now, we have the reason to ask some big, big questions, at this point, because even though we know the research we funded didn't result in this particular virus, the fact that it was on bat coronaviruses that weren't harmful to humans and modifying the spike protein to make it better able to attach to human AC2 receptors--which is exactly what this previously bat coronavirus does--is too much of a coincidence to ignore. Because it was the same lab, you now have a logical next step where the research we funded continued and resulted in this leak.

    Fauci has been caught in lies, and this lie was certainly only truth because of a technicality. I still think the answer is that he shouldn't be on camera on a daily basis. That's not his job.

    I think it is conceivable that Fauci knew about this funding, that he was able to tell himself it wasn't technically gain of function research, and that he didn't know, if it turns out to be true, that continued research happened after that funding that resulted in the leak. But there is no way he isn't smart enough to understand what could have happened at that point.

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    I've said 1,000 times. We need to understand what happened, how it happened and why it happened - then there needs to be consequence to the offending parties in proportion to their involvement. Right now everyone is focused on finger pointing - not finding out what/why/how (obviously some people ARE trying to understand that - but the politicians aren't IMO).

    So far, 5,000,000 people (a vastly conservative # given the limited abilities of some countries) have died. Trillions have been lost in productivity, costs with vaccines, debts that will be carried lifetimes. Shouldn't there be some type of consequence?
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    So cliff notes this bitch, whoís to blame?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    I've said 1,000 times. We need to understand what happened, how it happened and why it happened - then there needs to be consequence to the offending parties in proportion to their involvement. Right now everyone is focused on finger pointing - not finding out what/why/how (obviously some people ARE trying to understand that - but the politicians aren't IMO).

    So far, 5,000,000 people (a vastly conservative # given the limited abilities of some countries) have died. Trillions have been lost in productivity, costs with vaccines, debts that will be carried lifetimes. Shouldn't there be some type of consequence?
    This.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    So cliff notes this bitch, who’s to blame?


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    NO one yet.

    The United States funded research in the Wuhan lab where they took bat corona viruses previously not harmful to humans and changed them in the exact same way the COVID-19 causing virus infects humans, and didn't report findings that were mandatory reportable.

    Genetically, we know this research didn't result in the virus we know to cause COVID-19, but it makes the possibility much more likely that the lab took what they learned in this research and later developed the virus known to cause COVID-19. Not a smoking gun, but now more than enough to where no one can ignore a possible later lab leak.

    It wasn't considered "gain of function" research because "gain of function" research takes "infectious agents" and tries to increase "pathogenicity or transmissibility." Since these bat coronaviruses were not infectious to humans at the start, it's not technically gain of function, which should save Fauci from charges of lying to Congress. But it's an incredibly disingenuous position that it's not gain of function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    NO one yet.

    The United States funded research in the Wuhan lab where they took bat corona viruses previously not harmful to humans and changed them in the exact same way the COVID-19 causing virus infects humans, and didn't report findings that were mandatory reportable.

    Genetically, we know this research didn't result in the virus we know to cause COVID-19, but it makes the possibility much more likely that the lab took what they learned in this research and later developed the virus known to cause COVID-19. Not a smoking gun, but now more than enough to where no one can ignore a possible later lab leak.

    It wasn't considered "gain of function" research because "gain of function" research takes "infectious agents" and tries to increase "pathogenicity or transmissibility." Since these bat coronaviruses were not infectious to humans at the start, it's not technically gain of function, which should save Fauci from charges of lying to Congress. But it's an incredibly disingenuous position that it's not gain of function.
    Ok but Iím struggling to figure out why we needed to research this. Any country. There is no reason to do what they did except to cause havoc. And I just donít get the reasoning.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Ok but I’m struggling to figure out why we needed to research this. Any country. There is no reason to do what they did except to cause havoc. And I just don’t get the reasoning.


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    Those in our government who are responsible need to be held accountable, I don't care which letter is next to their name. I don't know maybe we will just lie over like we've been doing. Or maybe one day there will be a major push back to replace the clowns making decisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MD 5150 View Post
    Those in our government who are responsible need to be held accountable, I don't care which letter is next to their name. I don't know maybe we will just lie over like we've been doing. Or maybe one day there will be a major push back to replace the clowns making decisions.
    No there wonít. Thereís a socialist bartender representing a district in New York. There is a career socialist senator in Vermont who lost a primary a few times.

    The Vice President of the United States of America is only there because she could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch.

    Maxine Waters, auntie Maxine as I call her, is one of the dumbest people I have ever heard utter a word.

    All of these idiots make Dan Quayle look like a Mensa candidate.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Ok but Iím struggling to figure out why we needed to research this. Any country. There is no reason to do what they did except to cause havoc. And I just donít get the reasoning.


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    I am with you. I "get" why some might feel it is important, but this pandemic should underline why the risks outweigh the potential benefits. In a way, it's not all that dissimilar from GMOs, except the benefits there clearly outweigh the potential hazards. This pandemic could have been so much worse, and has the potential to STILL get worse.

    Scientists say it helps them prepare for pandemics, possibly create new treatments, and help researches understand how gain of function changes in the real world (for example, variants emerging).

    The left will tell you Obama ended this type of research funding by the US, but it turns out it left a decent sized loophole. That loophole was large enough that the Trump administration released new guidelines on such research which seemed to signal an end to the alleged "moratorium" on doing it, not that it actually totally existed in the first place.

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    ...moved

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post

    Scientists say it helps them prepare for pandemics, possibly create new treatments, and help researches understand how gain of function changes in the real world (for example, variants emerging).

    .
    I have to wonder; if they 'caused' it - shouldn't they have the recipe to cure it? Or is this what the MNRA stuff is based upon?
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  15. #18417
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    No, Just because you create a virus doesn't mean you have the antidote. You can certainly create something without a cure. You may have a cure. However definitely not 100%

    In a sense, scientists love acting as God. If they can harness the power of nature, it gives them power. Think of the rush it would be to create Dolly the sheep. To clone something. Its kind of the Eruption of the scientific community. Not saying its always bad. Just there is a power and to quote Spiderman, a responsibility with said power.

    I don't know what or who is to blame but given the choice of what I have heard from the powers at be and what appears to be lies by Fauci, and common sense (virus originated in city where there was a breach and research was going on with gain of function) I kind of go with the common sense. The damage and fall out of a country doing this via accident would paralyze the scientific community. Lets imagine that a smoking gun is found that gain of function created COVID and that a lab accident allowed it to leak into the world

    You think that the people are going to be for this work to continue? No. You think people in the world will want their governments researching this? No. Wanna know what this will ential? A lot of scientists and researchers losing funding which means losing their jobs. Oh and likely a some sort of rebuke from the world and the governments on the countries responsible.

    Now I don't know for sure what happeend. I just see a lot of smoke and I don't see much urgency by our government with getting down to the absolute, transparent truth. I do see a guy (Fauci) who now seems to have lied testifiying to the Senata. Possibly. Maybe it was wet market and that would be actually better. However lets get the truth. Without fear of the consequence. This virus has affected the entire world for almost 2 years. I think all of us deserve it

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    Fauci lied, but not technically. Know how Clinton said he didnít have sexual relations because the definition was all about doing things to other people? Same thing here. It doesnít fit the definition of gain of function on a technicality.

    But yes, this is a lot of smoke.


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    Thinking about it, if you really really want all the anti-vaxxers to get vaccinated Biden needs to do the following. Fire Fauci. Maybe bring him up for lying to Congress. Then release the truth on what we really know on how it got released. If man-made which it likely is, then that may be what causes the people who believe it is a hoax to finally believe. Newsweek even recommneded this because Fauci has zero credibility outside of those who believe everything he says which is now dwindling.

    Yes the anti-vaxx should get it regardless but if it appears the head scientist in the country, the golden child for so many has been diverting from the truth well anything he says is now tainted. I know this doesn't make sense to those here but to change people's minds, you have to understand where they are coming from.[ Fauci is a snake to many of them and as time goes on, looking more and more like they were right

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    Default 2020 CoronaVirus Outbreak - That began in Wuhan, China and is spreading

    Most of the anti-vax crowd doesnít believe the virus has ever been a big deal.

    So, in essence Fauci was lying about something they donít believe is a big deal. Therefore, the lie shouldnít be a big deal, either.

    The contradictory line of thinking in some of these people who are upset Fauci lied is comical.

    I donít see how firing him would move the needle at all when it comes to vaccinations, but then again when it comes to the States who the fuck knows anymore.


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