Can anyone explain VH and Metallica’s divergent career arc?

[Legoman]

I just finished watching Some Kind of Monster again, some 14 years (?) after seeing it for the first time. I’ve never really been a Metallica fan (I don’t own a single album) but I like watching music-related documentaries and this one is great. I was reminded how MASSIVE the band is in the last ten minutes when you’re shown them playing at the Giants stadium, etc. and it got me thinking: how was it that Metallica managed to completely overtake VH, despite them being an opening act on the Monsters of Rock tour in ‘88?

Yes, VH managed to survive grunge and continue to play arenas and sheds in North America when other ‘80s bands died off but why was it that they didn’t become ‘more’? Despite Sammy’s frequent claims about them being ‘the biggest band in the world’, and accepting that they WERE successful with their four #1 albums, yadda yadda yadda, how can it be that a band that were so uncommercial, intentionally so, as Metallica could then become so, soooo much bigger than an American Institution like VH? Was it really about the music? Did VH’s line-up change in ‘85 make all the difference? Is the majority-male Metallica audience significant, i.e. are male music fans less fickle and more likely to be in it for life?

Perhaps it’s all of the above and perhaps it’s none? It’s questions like this, after being such a big VH fan for over 30 years, that have been rattling around in my head in various forms over the years. Is it important that I get the answers I’m looking for? Not really. I’m just interested in hearing others’ ideas and opinions on the matter.

Peace.🤘😎🤘

[Van Squalen]

Uh. Pretty easy.

Metallica DID stuff. Albums, tours, communication with fanbase.

VH did virtually Jack Shit.

Nada becomes obsolete pretty quick.

[Legoman]

True but they’d already overtaken VH by the time both bands released albums in ‘91 (admittedly, with what was considered by some as Metallica’s most commercial, some said a ‘sellout’ album - the Black Album) and when VH was still a functioning band. Maybe VH were content with what they had and didn’t feel the need to stretch?

[atomicpunk5151]

I just finished watching Some Kind of Monster again, some 14 years (?) after seeing it for the first time. I’ve never really been a Metallica fan (I don’t own a single album) but I like watching music-related documentaries and this one is great. I was reminded how MASSIVE the band is in the last ten minutes when you’re shown them playing at the Giants stadium, etc. and it got me thinking: how was it that Metallica managed to completely overtake VH, despite them being an opening act on the Monsters of Rock tour in ‘88?

Yes, VH managed to survive grunge and continue to play arenas and sheds in North America when other ‘80s bands died off but why was it that they didn’t become ‘more’? Despite Sammy’s frequent claims about them being ‘the biggest band in the world’, and accepting that they WERE successful with their four #1 albums, yadda yadda yadda, how can it be that a band that were so uncommercial, intentionally so, as Metallica could then become so, soooo much bigger than an American Institution like VH? Was it really about the music? Did VH’s line-up change in ‘85 make all the difference? Is the majority-male Metallica audience significant, i.e. are male music fans less fickle and more likely to be in it for life?

Perhaps it’s all of the above and perhaps it’s none? It’s questions like this, after being such a big VH fan for over 30 years, that have been rattling around in my head in various forms over the years. Is it important that I get the answers I’m looking for? Not really. I’m just interested in hearing others’ ideas and opinions on the matter.

Peace.������

We have covered this in depth here a few times in the past: http://www.vhlinks.com/vbforums/thre...ight=metallica

I am more interested how you don't own any Metallica albums? Were you more into rock and not Metal? Metallica seemed to come to your path in 1991. I think I just answered your question above as well.

First.... go get the Master of Puppets album. IF you don't want to buy it, just listen on spotify or youtube.

Then check out Kill, Ride, Justice. Then get the Black album and you will see how they ended up selling 16,000,000 copies in the US alone and 31,000,000 Worldwide. HELL... 28 years later the Black Album sell between 4,000 to 5,000 new copies a week. Amazing. That is how they passed VH in the Worldwide recognition.

Also, VH came along almost 10 years earlier, they were peaking and then dropping at different times. They also had different staying power due to band (Dave/Sammy) and management changes.

[Van Squalen]

True but they’d already overtaken VH by the time both bands released albums in ‘91 (admittedly, with what was considered by some as Metallica’s most commercial, some said a ‘sellout’ album - the Black Album) and when VH was still a functioning band. Maybe VH were content with what they had and didn’t feel the need to stretch?

Or simply that Metallica's music appealed to a wider scope of Americana. The Black album was, despite it being considered a sellout album for them, much harder than FUCK was, obviously.

VH hasn't felt much need to stretch ever. The few times they did, it was primarily Dave motivating them to do so, because he's got more eclectic tastes than Eddie. I don't think Eddie thinks much about tending the tree, unless 'someone' is making a profit off the brand name...be it a band member, or an anonymous fan selling hack striped shit online.

[Legoman]

Cheers, atomicpunk. I did attempt a search on the forum first, admittedly without going through all 160+ pages of the Metallica thread, but couldn’t see that the topic had already been discussed.

I was aware of Metallica in the ‘80s, and listened to Lightning and Puppets at my friend’s house, but you’re right - I was more rock than heavy metal. Saying that, I WAS a fan of Anthrax - Among the Living was great! - and I even bought Death Angel’s The Ultraviolence. Ultimately, thrash just wasn’t for me.

[Legoman]

Or simply that Metallica's music appealed to a wider scope of Americana.

Clearly! Still surprised, though, considering the wider cultural impact that VH had in the early ‘80s that they were overtaken as comprehensively. Every dog has its day, I suppose. I’m not sure that in itself necessarily explains the massive appeal of Metallica. Ach, who knows?

[I Coulda Hada VH]

Timing is everything. By the time Van Halen released their debut album in 1978, the Mighty Led Zeppelin were already on the decline. 5150, which was released in 1986 was the most popular VH album of the Sammy era. That record was dwarfed by GNR's Appetite For Destruction in 1987.

In the world of rock & roll, youth tends to get served.

[Van Squalen]

Clearly! Still surprised, though, considering the wider cultural impact that VH had in the early ‘80s that they were overtaken as comprehensively. Every dog has its day, I suppose. I’m not sure that in itself necessarily explains the massive appeal of Metallica. Ach, who knows?

Doesn’t it?

Middle America tends to generally respond more positively to metal than pop rock. The genre reflects the culture, and vice versa. More people find an expression of their inner selves in Metallica’s music than Van Halen’s. Spotify and Pandora and SiriusXM reflect similar average listener ratios between heavy metal and pop. Of course, hip hop and rap and R&B and country outweigh both of those genres.

Lol, once again proving that VH ain’t metal.

[atomicpunk5151]

Middle America tends to generally respond more positively to metal than pop rock. The genre reflects the culture, and vice versa. More people find an expression of their inner selves in Metallica’s music than Van Halen’s. Spotify and Pandora and SiriusXM reflect similar average listener ratios between heavy metal and pop. Of course, hip hop and rap and R&B and country outweigh both of those genres.

Lol, once again proving that VH ain’t metal.

Not sure on this one. Metallica became far MORE popular when they went away from Metal and more towards Hard Rock. They went to the mainstream... where all the people are at.

Thrash Metal is an outlier. Not the mainstream.

Mainstream farmer bob wasn't listening to this in the 80s....

[Get The Show On The Road]

I just finished watching Some Kind of Monster again, some 14 years (?) after seeing it for the first time. I’ve never really been a Metallica fan (I don’t own a single album) but I like watching music-related documentaries and this one is great. I was reminded how MASSIVE the band is in the last ten minutes when you’re shown them playing at the Giants stadium, etc. and it got me thinking: how was it that Metallica managed to completely overtake VH, despite them being an opening act on the Monsters of Rock tour in ‘88?

Yes, VH managed to survive grunge and continue to play arenas and sheds in North America when other ‘80s bands died off but why was it that they didn’t become ‘more’? Despite Sammy’s frequent claims about them being ‘the biggest band in the world’, and accepting that they WERE successful with their four #1 albums, yadda yadda yadda, how can it be that a band that were so uncommercial, intentionally so, as Metallica could then become so, soooo much bigger than an American Institution like VH? Was it really about the music? Did VH’s line-up change in ‘85 make all the difference? Is the majority-male Metallica audience significant, i.e. are male music fans less fickle and more likely to be in it for life?

Perhaps it’s all of the above and perhaps it’s none? It’s questions like this, after being such a big VH fan for over 30 years, that have been rattling around in my head in various forms over the years. Is it important that I get the answers I’m looking for? Not really. I’m just interested in hearing others’ ideas and opinions on the matter.

Peace.������

Metallica became more mainstream with the Black Album. They went for a more pop friendly sound and gained a whole new audience. Then they kept that formula and have only changed the bass player, once due to death and once of their choosing.

Van Halen broke up at the height of their popularity. They lost their original singer and made a further turn in the pop direction with their new singer.

Metallica also is hands down a far superior outfit when it comes to promotion. If Van Halen did even half the promotional stuff that Metallica does the gap wouldn't be nearly as large.

[Van Squalen]

Metallica didn’t really switch to hard rock. They changed the metal genre, actually, virtually by themselves with some significant assist from Priest and Maiden, whittling it down to a handful of defining acts and dozens of more hardcore fringe ones. Farmer Bob thinks of metal as one of a half dozen, maybe a dozen outfits, and they often mistakenly lump AC/DC and GNR in that small group.

But they don’t toss VH in there.

[japeape]

I remember getting deep into Metallica in 1984, with "Ride the Lightning."
They had become my favorite band, and i started worshipping them the previous year,
when i heard "Kill 'em all."

But RTL blew me away with the songs and the rhythm guitar tones.
I knew they were ridiculously good, yet i never imagined they'd become bigger
than VH, and as huge as U2.

I never saw that coming, because the band was so fucking heavy, straight through AJFA.

But they were such good song & riff writers, that i guess, they couldn't be denied.
And "Master of Puppets" was another MASSIVE leap forward, just like RTL was.

And, let's face it, they were shrewd.
The Black Album, though i wasn't a huge fan, WAS the next logical step.

Very smart band, particularly Lars.

And the fact they kept all the momentum until the present....
Strategic indeed, but also hard working & fan friendly.

In a way they are like Aerosmith, where each member is so driven by the Metallica brand.
Aerosmith can't seem to quit, because they are addicted to Aerosmith or what Aerosmith
represents.

Eddie never seemed to have that same fire & passion, as far as keeping the brand alive and
the band huge.

Metallica has that focus.

[Brett]

Different band, different time.

[Rokgtar]

I just remember when, out of the blue it seems, the greatness of Kirk Hammett hit me like a ton of bricks, and I realized what an absolutely innovative and genius guitar player he was. At that point, it seemed like VH never existed.





:-P