Who writes the songs?

[billy007]

We had a discussion for a bit in the Motley Crue thread about who gets credit for writing a song and I thought about moving it all here, but decided to just start fresh as I had been thinking about it before that anyway.

I had mentioned on one hand, I think that any one that brings something to the song when it’s first recorded should get credit; but on the other hand it was pointed out that you can strip all that away and take a song down to its original piano or guitar and it is still that song. So just want to get the discussion going again as I think it’s a good one.

[japeape]

Always loved Prince' genius intro arpeggiated chords to the epic, Purple Rain.

But now i learned, during rehearsals, Prince called out a key & said gimme something moody.
Wendy came up with the entire intro & chordal idea, and Prince said: Yes, that's it!

But only Prince is credited as the songwriter.

What if i'm jamming with Jimmy Page & he says: Gimme something in A minor, and
i come up with the intro to Stairway to Heaven, and he says: Great, i'll take it from here.

Wendy deserves a writing credit.

[I Coulda Hada VH]

Always loved Prince' genius intro arpeggiated chords to the epic, Purple Rain.

But now i learned, during rehearsals, Prince called out a key & said gimme something moody.
Wendy came up with the entire intro & chordal idea, and Prince said: Yes, that's it!

But only Prince is credited as the songwriter.

What if i'm jamming with Jimmy Page & he says: Gimme something in A minor, and
i come up with the intro to Stairway to Heaven, and he says: Great, i'll take it from here.

Wendy deserves a writing credit.

Did you know Prince asked Journey for permission to release Purple Rain because he thought it sounded too similar to Faithfully? True story.

[Naked Wake]

as I mentioned in the MC thread, I'm a fan of "if you bring something to the table, you deserve credit" but I guess it depends on how much is brought and how it impacts the song. I think a lot of bands "jam it out" and so that warrants an equal slice of the pie to me. In the analogy above I think Wendy would be entitled to writing credits if she had that much of an impact on the song. Jimmy Page saying "Give me something in A minor" would warrant a share in the credits. Just sayin'.

Now, if I came in with the main riff, and that's what makes the song, it's probably fair to say that I deserve the full credit.

[CalFB]

Barry Manilow, apparently he writes the songs.......

[Number 47]

Who writes the songs?

[ArtyBoy]

I had mentioned on one hand, I think that any one that brings something to the song when it’s first recorded t get credit; but on the other hand it was pointed out that you can strip all that away and take a song down to its original piano or guitar and it is still that song. So just want to get the discussion going again as I think it’s a good one.

Someone who played on the recording might not get songwriting credit, but as a member of the band, which will usually be formed as an LLC, they can still get a contracted amount for each copy of that recording sold. A session player will say, "Give me $500 to play on 'I Heard It Through the Grapevine,' and wherever that song goes after that, my $500 is all I expect." That's called a "work for hire," meaning you sell all rights to your playing on that song for one flat fee. Tommy Lee, as part of Motley Crue, LLC is sharing in the profits, no doubt.

That's where owning the original recording comes in. Little Richard and James Brown recorded their biggest hits multiple times because someone else would legally own the classic recording, so they'd just do a new version and put it on a new greatest hits. Suicidal Tendencies re-recorded their entire first album because someone else owned the original issue.

Like a friend of mine who does photography said, in the creative world, there's a lot of room for negotiation.

I love all this aspect as much as making the music. I wish I had an actual reason to know about it!

[ArtyBoy]

This is one of the Pete Townshend demos I was talking about. It's Pete on drums, bass, keys and harmonies, and an album-quality mix, also by Pete! What could the rest of the band say? Pete had three of the greatest stylists in the history of the genre to work with, but Pete laid out the framework from start to finish!

[ArtyBoy]

Another stunning example: Won't Get Fooled Again, the all-Pete version!

[ziggysmalls]

I don't think one size fits all for writing. If a song comes organically from just jamming, well sure the band should get writing credit. However if a guitarist has a song demoed and approaches the band and all the drummer and bass player do is embellish, well not so sure they should get equal songwriting. I mean the guitarist simply could have hired a session bass player or drummer, paid them and put them on their way. There is not one size fits all model. If a guitarist or keyboardist has a song prepared, with chord changes and a bass player simply follows those chord changes, well its almost paint by numbers. The key, tempo, time signature, dynamics, etc already set. He just needs to pick said notes from the key and make it fit. Now obviously playing to a jazz composition will require a different amount of involvement than coming up with a bass line to an AC/DC song.

Anyway I can see why bands split it equally but in time its a bad idea. Usually there are 1 to 2 guys doing more of the work.

[billy007]

I still think that if people are contributing, it's probably better to credit them. This is if they are band members, of course. The rules might be different for contract players. But unless you have a Pete Townshend or Paul McCartney bringing in fully fleshed out demos, then I think the people that add flavour to a song deserve a piece of the credit. Otherwise you end up with situations like the Prince situation above or some Rolling Stones songs where Mick Taylor or even Bill Wyman are claiming they are not getting credit for their ideas; or Mike Love for crying out loud.

[billy007]

Barry Manilow, apparently he writes the songs.......

Who writes the songs?

I knew I was setting myself up for this when I titled the thread, lol.

[BlindtotheWorld]

Another stunning example: Won't Get Fooled Again, the all-Pete version!

I knew that Pete was the primary song writer but had no idea to this extent. Wow.

[noise next door]

...I think the people that add flavour to a song deserve a piece of the credit...

Doesn't matter what you or I "think" in regards to how it "should" work... It's ALREADY clearly defined in US federal Copyright law how songwriting ownership works legally.

If you have the talent to create these specific 3 things working together:

1. Melody (with both pitch shape and rhythmic details)

2. An accompanying lyric to each note.

3. An underlying (even BASIC) counterpoint (ie chord progs) beneath those words and melody

You 100% own the publishing and royalty rights to that song.

It doesn't matter one bit what guitar riffs get detailed into the final recording. The bass lines don't matter. The drums don't matter. The transition sections don't matter. The arrangement doesn't matter. The guitar solos especially don't matter.

Whoever builds this specific predefined musical foundation is legally entitled under US law to 100% ownership of the song's monetary future potential.

Guys like Nikki Sixx and Stephen Pearcy from Ratt are dangerous in their bands because they have this specific 3-pronged skill set that make them pure songwriters and they can claim songwriting credit within their bands fully.

You can prove ownership with a simple "lead sheet" sent over to the US copyright office in Washington that shows the melody's treble clef info, with rhythm info, with lyrics under each note, and then with a SIMPLE chord designation from bar to bar. No detailed riffs are needed at all.

100% Pearcy owned:

[ArtyBoy]

I knew that Pete was the primary song writer but had no idea to this extent. Wow.

I started realizing I could just repost every demo over here, but you should also check out the one for Baba O'Reilly. It may be the best one, possibly even better than the released version. He does some extra interesting parts with the keyboard that are really mesmerizing! I'm under Pete's command!