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  1. #5041
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    I mean, if that really were the cause, wouldn't kids just be shooting each other all the time?

    We have two issues to grapple with outside of the weapons used. One, the vast majority of people with mental illness are not going to be violent. Two, there is a connection between mass public shootings and mental illness. I have been looking at this incorrectly, and it is important we shift with new information.

    At the broadest level, peer-reviewed research has shown that individuals with major mental disorders (those that substantially interfere with life activities) are more likely to commit violent acts, especially if they abuse drugs. When we focus more narrowly on mass public shootings — an extreme and, fortunately, rare form of violence — we see a relatively high rate of mental illness.

    According to our research, at least 59% of the 185 public mass shootings that took place in the United States from 1900 through 2017 were carried out by people who had either been diagnosed with a mental disorder or demonstrated signs of serious mental illness prior to the attack.
    (LA Times)

    Mother Jones found a rate of 62%. These numbers are WAY higher than the actual population--15 times higher than the rate of serious mental illness in adults. Most of these shooters did not seek the mental health treatment they needed.

    And as I have intimated before:

    Because there’s still a lot we don’t understand about mass shootings, we need to invest in research to develop evidence-based solutions.

  2. #5042
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Part of the problem with all of this "news" in the moment is it now seems he actually didn't have what we would consider to be "body armor." Then again, maybe he did. One good rule of thumb, I think, is that none of this stuff in the immediate aftermath is worth putting any stock into, including the guns and ammunition. The haze is to heavy for now.
    Maybe your report is wrong.


    Now I've read he was wearing a "tactical vest carrier with no ballistic panels."

    Either way, the trivial point was that he saved the money to buy what he felt he needed for this tragedy.

  3. #5043
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    Wow! Looking at this kid’s background (home life, bullied because of speech impediment, aggressive behavior, etc.) there is probably thousands of kids across the country that fit this profile. His behavior was no secret to those who knew him. How do you stop the next bomb before it explodes?

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  5. #5044
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy812 View Post
    Maybe your report is wrong.


    Now I've read he was wearing a "tactical vest carrier with no ballistic panels."

    Either way, the trivial point was that he saved the money to buy what he felt he needed for this tragedy.
    Oh totally. I just mean that we have two opposite reports now and trying to make sense of anything based on those is probably tough. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAD-1972 View Post
    Wow! Looking at this kid’s background (home life, bullied because of speech impediment, aggressive behavior, etc.) there is probably thousands of kids across the country that fit this profile. His behavior was no secret to those who knew him. How do you stop the next bomb before it explodes?
    Hugs?

  7. #5046
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAD-1972 View Post
    Wow! Looking at this kid’s background (home life, bullied because of speech impediment, aggressive behavior, etc.) there is probably thousands of kids across the country that fit this profile. His behavior was no secret to those who knew him. How do you stop the next bomb before it explodes?
    Those many thousands should be kept away from guns, far away. The people who sold him or got him the weapons should be held accountable. The social network he used to have this mindset too. I'd hope the authorities in charge are going to go deep on this.
    Little Dreamer

  8. #5047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Those many thousands should be kept away from guns, far away. The people who sold him or got him the weapons should be held accountable. The social network he used to have this mindset too. I'd hope the authorities in charge are going to go deep on this.
    But, according to reports, he legally purchased the guns. Why should those people be held accountable?

    Regarding the social network, well that becomes a slippery slope.

  9. #5048
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy812 View Post
    But, according to reports, he legally purchased the guns. Why should those people be held accountable?

    Regarding the social network, well that becomes a slippery slope.
    First of all, law should be changed yesterday. Second, when you're at a bar, you can legally purchase alcohol, but if you've drank 6 shots, are shitfaced, the bartender will sometimes talk you into not ordering another glass, especially if he knows you're driving. Same thing here, don't sell to an agitated teen. Businesses have the "right to refuse service to a customer." There's a sign saying as much on most businesses' wall. The culture has to change radically, with everyone doing their part.
    Little Dreamer

  10. #5049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    First of all, law should be changed yesterday. Second, when you're at a bar, you can legally purchase alcohol, but if you've drank 6 shots, are shitfaced, the bartender will sometimes talk you into not ordering another glass, especially if he knows you're driving. Same thing here, don't sell to an agitated teen. Businesses have the "right to refuse service to a customer." There's a sign saying as much on most businesses' wall. The culture has to change radically, with everyone doing their part.
    I agree there should have been changes in place already.

    But in your analogy, the bartender can see a person is drunk and shouldn't be served. How would firearms retailer know this kid was agitated? His pure joy of turning 18 and purchasing firearms would have, no doubt, hidden that angst.

  11. #5050
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    The Founding Father's fucked up royally on this one. Sorry but if we're just gonna let children die in vain and just have to suck it up, then FUCK the 2nd amendment.

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    Default Today's mass shooting is brought to you by.......

    Sammy Hagar getting quite a bit of shit from some gun nutty fans of his over his most recent IG post.




    My personal favourite comment…Let the students carry guns to protect themselves……..




    The stupidity is boundless.
    Last edited by MF5150; 05.25.22 at 01:17 PM.
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  14. #5052
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    Again., this wasn't a widespread issue until the last 30 years.

    Concenring mental illness stats, I am not 100% confident in reviewing stats from 1900 up to maybe 1980 or 1990. I don't have a study of the occurrance of mental disorder X from 1900 to 1970 but I would assume that as we understood mental illnesses better, the numbers changed or shifted. Sure certain terms changed like shell shock to PTSD> However we were giving lobotomies and somebody in the mental field though it was a good idea. The government approved it.

    That said, I would make a blanket assumption that the percentage of people today who have a mental disorder is higher today than it was in 2010, 2000, 1990, 1980, etc I also would assume since the 70's we likely are giving out more medication per capita.

    Yes I know I am a simpleton but I try to view things from a high level. Did these shootings occur at the frequency 40 years ago compared to today? No. Yes I understand we have 24x7 but if 20 kids were killed in 1982 you bet your ass it would be on the front page. Same in 1972, 1962. If you had four or five shootings like have in two weeks,; it would have been. So its happening far more frequent today than in years past

    Second point. Is it more more likely to obtain a gun today or in years past? Just a quick Google seach I found this
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ing-a-firearm/

    Less guns iin the household today or most likely. Its really about the same outside of a few percentage points.

    I know people will bring up AR 15's AR 15's are a semi-automatic guns. They are not machine guns. I would assume the AR is more prevelant than something similar in 1982 but we are talking about guns in general. Not every kid is shooting up places iwth an AR 15. Sure some. Its a rifle. List of semi aiuto rifles throughout the years shows designs were availble in the 80's or 70's that look pretty similar to AR15
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tomatic_rifles

    So in years past we had more guns in households. We had less diagnosed mental illnesses and less shootings. Something else is causing this. Lots of things happened with how we raise people from the 70's up to current day. A shift in how to treat kids. Parents went from authoritive figures to friends. Removed corporal punishment. We moved to becoming more secular. Yes social media but lets face it social media wasn't widespread in 2005 and we had far more issues than 15 years prior. Divorce rates have skyrocketed. We have far more children out of wedlock. Its external to the gun. Its external to the law. I honestly don't know if some of what I mentioned is a cause but just throwing it out for arguments sake.

    I am definitely not advocating for doing nothing. Yeah I kind of was on that team but we should at least make some concessions with background checks. That said I am pretty confident we have a society problem. That's the roote cause. However nobody wants to put the finger on themselves and society. God forbid our methods of treating people are creating monsters. I think it would be wise of us to maybe think some of hte ideas we are using for raising children might not be the best method in this country. Maybe it works great in other countries but culture is important with how we treat issues.

    Switzerland can have guns in every house and they don't have this shit. Its us.

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    The gunman who massacred 19 children and two teachers at an elementary school in Texas warned in online messages sent minutes before the attack that he had shot his grandmother and was going to shoot up a school, the governor said Wednesday.

    Democrat Beto O’Rourke, who is running against Abbott for governor, interrupted Wednesday’s news conference, calling the tragedy “predictable.” Pointing his finger at Abbott, he said: “This is on you until you choose to do something different. This will continue to happen.” O’Rourke was escorted out as some in the room yelled at him, with Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin calling Beto a “sick son of a bitch.”

    https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-te...482483df6e4683
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rover View Post

    Democrat Beto O’Rourke, who is running against Abbott for governor, interrupted Wednesday’s news conference, calling the tragedy “predictable.” Pointing his finger at Abbott, he said: “This is on you until you choose to do something different. This will continue to happen.” O’Rourke was escorted out as some in the room yelled at him, with Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin calling Beto a “sick son of a bitch.”

    https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-te...482483df6e4683
    He’s not wrong.

    It’s going to continue to happen as it has for over a decade now.

    Sandy Hook was 10 years ago.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rover View Post
    The gunman who massacred 19 children and two teachers at an elementary school in Texas warned in online messages sent minutes before the attack that he had shot his grandmother and was going to shoot up a school, the governor said Wednesday.

    Democrat Beto O’Rourke, who is running against Abbott for governor, interrupted Wednesday’s news conference, calling the tragedy “predictable.” Pointing his finger at Abbott, he said: “This is on you until you choose to do something different. This will continue to happen.” O’Rourke was escorted out as some in the room yelled at him, with Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin calling Beto a “sick son of a bitch.”

    https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-te...482483df6e4683
    Political stunt.

 

 

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