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  1. #4831
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    I wonder where they think they're going
    Dealing with it.

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    After reading some details, this seems very much like a kid who is coming to grips with a compulsion to kill, like a serial killer, and scared about what that means.

    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    Wanna take a run at this one again?


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    With new evidence I could totally change my mind.

    But I don't yet know of evidence that they were involved in the shooting. Some extremely questionable actions, absolutely, though it isn't that strange for gun owners to buy a gun for their child, ostensibly purchased for themselves, at a young age.

    But that doesn't help with reconciling charging him as an adult. Either he is responsible for his own actions (adult) or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    Wanna take a run at this one again?
    I understand LM's inquiry, it's a logical one. Given the seriousness of the crimes, I agree with charging him as an adult, though. As for the parents being charged, I believe they still should be for their irresponsibility, but I also think there is more to the investigation than what we're aware of. Charging the parents seems like the right move, but also has the potential to be a flimsy case.

    Are the parents really 'on the run?' Or is that just the media blowing this out of proportion? Their lawyer claims they are returning. I guess we'll see. If they indeed are on the run, things just got a lot worse for them.

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    The Oakland County Prosecutor is an absolute idiot. The stupid parents were set to be arraigned at 2p today but the mighty OC prosecutor decides she wants to have a grandstanding press conference at noon blaming the parents for the whole issue and announcing her charges BEFORE the arraignment. FIRST you charge them, THEN you host a press conference telling the world how great you are - that's protocol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    After reading some details, this seems very much like a kid who is coming to grips with a compulsion to kill, like a serial killer, and scared about what that means.



    With new evidence I could totally change my mind.

    But I don't yet know of evidence that they were involved in the shooting. Some extremely questionable actions, absolutely, though it isn't that strange for gun owners to buy a gun for their child, ostensibly purchased for themselves, at a young age.

    But that doesn't help with reconciling charging him as an adult. Either he is responsible for his own actions (adult) or not.
    I believe they could charge him as an adult and also charge the parents, since he is still officially a minor and in their care. Obviously, they're not being charged with the same crimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy812 View Post
    I believe they could charge him as an adult and also charge the parents, since he is still officially a minor and in their care. Obviously, they're not being charged with the same crimes.
    I guess my hypothetical would be, is if this were an 18-yr old friend, would he get charged?

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    The text from the Mother to the kid screams to me, ”I need to make it look like I had no idea what he was going to do...” or ”This is going to look really bad on me (us) so I need to make it look like I care...”

    If they really are on the run, they were definitely complicit and knew about what their kid was going to do. Innocent people typically have no reason to flee or run away to destroy evidence.

    And the fact they were against having the kid come home with them and just left on the morning of points to complicity. If those are normal parents they hear what the school has to say and then they say to their child, ”Get in the fucking car...We’re going home...

    I wouldn’t be surprised at all if these parents knew he was being bullied. Bought him the gun and knew exactly what he was going to do.

    Would be fubar, but not surprising in the slightest.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    I guess my hypothetical would be, is if this were an 18-yr old friend, would he get charged?
    Are you referring to an 18-yr old friend providing the gun? If so, I would say 'yes' he should be charged as well. But this doesn't take the place of the minor being charged as an adult. Minors are charged as adults for a variety of reasons. Not sure of the legal boundaries in Michigan.

    The involuntary manslaughter charge to the parents does seem excessive. I believe they should be facing some charges, but I wasn't expecting that.

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    McDonald said a teacher saw Ethan Crumbley searching ammunition on his cell phone during class the day before the shooting and reported it to school officials. The school contacted Jennifer Crumbley via voicemail. Officials also sent an email but received no response from either parent, McDonald said.
    "Jennifer Crumbley exchanged text messages about the incident with her son on that day, stating, quote, 'LOL, I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.' End quote," McDonald said.

    Via CNN

    These parents are fucked. Both legally and mentally.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy812 View Post
    Are you referring to an 18-yr old friend providing the gun? If so, I would say 'yes' he should be charged as well. But this doesn't take the place of the minor being charged as an adult. Minors are charged as adults for a variety of reasons. Not sure of the legal boundaries in Michigan.

    The involuntary manslaughter charge to the parents does seem excessive. I believe they should be facing some charges, but I wasn't expecting that.
    I have misgivings about trying a 15-yr old as an adult. In that state I believe he can be sentenced to life without parole and I guess I sort of feel like if you don’t have a fully formed brain and your brain is still malleable we should be trying more rehabilitation than we otherwise would.

    I bring up the friend because, like you conclude, I don’t think he’d get the same charges as the parents. And unless there is more information, this feels like overreach because we have to “do something.”


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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    I have misgivings about trying a 15-yr old as an adult. In that state I believe he can be sentenced to life without parole and I guess I sort of feel like if you don’t have a fully formed brain and your brain is still malleable we should be trying more rehabilitation than we otherwise would.

    I bring up the friend because, like you conclude, I don’t think he’d get the same charges as the parents. And unless there is more information, this feels like overreach because we have to “do something.”


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    The teen was crying out for help, and that cry was written out, and photographed by a teacher, and forwarded to School Management.

    Funny, that in a situation like that, of the school having information of what the teen had written down and drawn, the gun, the blood, the bullet, the plea for help, etc., that was changed later by the teen, but was photographed by a teacher before the changes... that school seeing that photograph provided by the teacher, would not have had the SRO, the proactive step of asking the parents, "Do you have guns at home?," and "Do you keep them locked up?"

    That's the part on the schools, the parents lack of input not withstanding, that I am most shocked about.

    Even a search of the teens locker and backpack by the SRO would be called for in this instance.

    The parents probably don't have/won't have much money after their legal fees to go after in civil suits.....

    But oh, the School District has some money, probably capped by State Govt. Laws.
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  14. #4842
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    I reckon they’d just tell the school, ”Its none of your damned business if we own guns at home. This is America.”

    Parents were arrested at some industrial warehouse after taking out $4000 from an ATM.




    Really hoping both trials are televised.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    I have misgivings about trying a 15-yr old as an adult. In that state I believe he can be sentenced to life without parole and I guess I sort of feel like if you don’t have a fully formed brain and your brain is still malleable we should be trying more rehabilitation than we otherwise would.

    I bring up the friend because, like you conclude, I don’t think he’d get the same charges as the parents. And unless there is more information, this feels like overreach because we have to “do something.”
    I can understand your reasoning that this feels like overreach and that we have to "do something." But in this particular case, from what we understand so far, I do feel like something must be done to the parents. Of course, their running away has certainly put the exclamation point on that thought.

    It is rare that the parents are arrested like this. Like I alluded to earlier, if Adam didn't kill Mrs. Lanza I would have hoped for some charges against her. And he was 20. I'll admit that, from time to time, I do fall in with the "we have to do something" crowd. For me, this is one of those times. But, I'm only aware of what the media and authorities have released so far. And I realize my feelings may be knee-jerk, but they are what they are at this moment.

    Regarding the issue of trying a 15-year old as an adult, again, I can understand anyone having misgivings about that. Perhaps you as a teacher and working with young people so much has given you a more open mind about such things. The problem I have with this and why I favor trying teenagers as adults when the crimes are as heinous as these, is that so often when they are not tried as adults, they serve time in a detention center and get out at 18 or 21. Now, go easy on me, as I have not done any research on this, but it seems to happen time and time again. So, obviously, I'm coming at this with little more than gut reactions and so I limit my opinions on the matter to an online message board. Basically, I guess it depends on their mental capacity, but teenagers who kill and are not tried as adults, despite the fact that the crimes were premeditated, get off easier than they should.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rover View Post
    The teen was crying out for help, and that cry was written out, and photographed by a teacher, and forwarded to School Management.

    Funny, that in a situation like that, of the school having information of what the teen had written down and drawn, the gun, the blood, the bullet, the plea for help, etc., that was changed later by the teen, but was photographed by a teacher before the changes... that school seeing that photograph provided by the teacher, would not have had the SRO, the proactive step of asking the parents, "Do you have guns at home?," and "Do you keep them locked up?"

    That's the part on the schools, the parents lack of input not withstanding, that I am most shocked about.

    Even a search of the teens locker and backpack by the SRO would be called for in this instance.

    The parents probably don't have/won't have much money after their legal fees to go after in civil suits.....

    But oh, the School District has some money, probably capped by State Govt. Laws.
    I would have hoped that after his drawings and the plea for help, the school officials would have asked the parents if they had guns in the house and if they were locked up. Naturally, they would have just lied about one of those things. But I agree that there should have been a search of the locker and the backpack at that time as well. I guess it's easy to say that after the fact. I have a feeling that, going forward, any similar incidents like this will most certainly require such actions by school officials.

    I thought it was interesting that the parents resisted bringing him home after the meeting. I would like a little more info on that claim.

    It's been interesting how many lockdowns there were across the nation after this. Lot of phony threats being called in to schools. Lot of douchebags out there. I hope their penalties get a bit stiffer now.

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    Just watched the arraignment. Bail is $500,000 each. No 10% discount.

    Defense says they were not fleeing last night. lol Not sure how they can spin that one.

    Defense also claims the gun was locked up. Again, not sure how they'll spin that one.

 

 

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