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  1. #7906
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    Letting people steal with almost zero consequences in some cases isn't the answer either.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Letting people steal with almost zero consequences in some cases isn't the answer either.
    Who is suggesting that?


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    I wanna see store employees blasting looters.

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  5. #7909
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Probably. However, in this case,

    "Too many innocent people sit in jail for the sole reason that they are poor."

    "If you don't have money for bail, you don't do the crime."

    "I am talking about people not convicted of a crime and presumed innocent. You are assuming guilt of all accused, which the system explicitly does the opposite."
    Ok statistician, what percentages of those in jail are innocent?


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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    I wanna see store employees blasting looters.
    In theory or in reality?
    =VH=

  7. #7911
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    Default The shitty progressive idea/bs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Ok statistician, what percentages of those in jail are innocent?


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    The estimate is 2-10%.

    Iím not trying to be a cock, here, truly. I get that people donít think there is as big a problem. I think most people think the facts come out and you get your day in court and you wouldnít plea unless guilty. (There is a good book on that isnít the case.)

    Instead, charges are ďstackedĒ to assure a plea, they will add even more charges if you ask for a trial, public defenders donít have the time or funding to go to trial, and judges are often annoyed and irritated if there actually is a trial. Meanwhile, your income determines whether or not youíre free in the meantime.

    This isnít the way it should work and so think you as a conservative would agree ďlaw and orderĒ isnít about punishing the innocent to nab as many guilty as possible. The incentives shouldnít be high conviction rates at the lowest cost, but a system that seeks truth, doesnít punish you for exercising your fundamental rights, nor where income determines whether or not you stay in jail while presumed innocent.

    I donít mean to be prickly about it, so I apologize.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Who is suggesting that?


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    States that don't enforce petty theft crimes.

    Should you go to jail for stealing a Big Mac? No.

    Should you get a free pass from police and prosecutors. No.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

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  9. #7913
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    There has to be some common sense. You steal a 40 dollar item. it has an impact on the store owner. Even a 5 dollar one doing it multiple times is going to impact their bottom line. Its not right in any sense or form. Now do you need to be sent away to share a cell with Schillinger because you stole a pack of gum? No but if you attempt to steal a PS4 well something should happen. If you smuggle 50 dollars of clothes out of Wal Mart something should happen. There has to be some type of negative punishment assigned to the crime of theft.

    I mean think about it this way. Raise your kids with acceptable theft. Lets say you look the other way when your kid goes through your wife's purse to take a dollar to buy some gum. Yeah its only a dollar but what is the impact to their morales by allowing it to occur? What about their friends. They too go through your wallet or wife's purse just to take a dollar. You simply are going to go "well its petty theft" No.

    We are in a sense giving positive reenforcement to bad behavior by not addressing the action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    There has to be some common sense. You steal a 40 dollar item. it has an impact on the store owner. Even a 5 dollar one doing it multiple times is going to impact their bottom line. Its not right in any sense or form. Now do you need to be sent away to share a cell with Schillinger because you stole a pack of gum? No but if you attempt to steal a PS4 well something should happen. If you smuggle 50 dollars of clothes out of Wal Mart something should happen. There has to be some type of negative punishment assigned to the crime of theft.

    I mean think about it this way. Raise your kids with acceptable theft. Lets say you look the other way when your kid goes through your wife's purse to take a dollar to buy some gum. Yeah its only a dollar but what is the impact to their morales by allowing it to occur? What about their friends. They too go through your wallet or wife's purse just to take a dollar. You simply are going to go "well its petty theft" No.

    We are in a sense giving positive reenforcement to bad behavior by not addressing the action.
    In regards to your children or a child, I agree itís a behavioral thing that lets them know itís ok. As for a threshold, look Iíve struggled a few times. In sober living it was particularly bad. My family only gave me x number of dollars when I wasnít working. It never once crossed my mind to steal something. I just waited. Iíve been lucky enough that Iíve never had to steal.

    I understand why someone could have to. Bread or food to take care of your family is one thing. But then again, there are pantries to help feed those folks. Mercy should and most times is given to those types of defendants. However, if you break the glass in a department store to take a tennis bracelet, you should get the max. Thatís cold and is just brazen theft. I have no sympathy. And lock them up. Not give them a summons. Theyíre gonna do it again.

    There is another place Iíd go with this but Iíd rather not.


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    'Beyond parody': New York Magazine is ripped for producing 400-page book of essays on 'the greatness of AOC' - honoring her 'beauty, rare authenticity and prominence'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ssays-AOC.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    States that don't enforce petty theft crimes.

    Should you go to jail for stealing a Big Mac? No.

    Should you get a free pass from police and prosecutors. No.
    Understandably, one couldn't help but think California decided sin 2014 shoplifting is okay because the law changed to "you won't be prosecuted for stealing under $950."

    What you wouldn't know is that, since 2000, 37 other states have set their felony threshold for the same crime the same or higher, some of them multiple times. Amongst the 15 that have a higher threshold: Texas ($2,500 for a felony!), Georgia, Utah, Alabama, and Tennessee. Only 6 states have it in the $400-$500 range. California was the 7th until this change. And most importantly, nothing about the change says that under $950 won't be prosecuted. It just won't be prosecuted as burglary.

    Misdemeanor shoplifting in CA is punishable by a $1,000 fine and 6 months in jail for first time offenders. However, part of the issue is that, 10 years ago, the CA Supreme Court ruled that CA prisons were unconstitutionally crowded, which is why they'd prefer to divert for first time offenders. There is discretion at work, here.

    None of that is the reason why organized retail theft is increasing, though. Retail organizations believe it is online purchase demand driven by COVID.

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    Well buh-bye Chris Cuomo. CNN finally got the memo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Understandably, one couldn't help but think California decided sin 2014 shoplifting is okay because the law changed to "you won't be prosecuted for stealing under $950."

    What you wouldn't know is that, since 2000, 37 other states have set their felony threshold for the same crime the same or higher, some of them multiple times. Amongst the 15 that have a higher threshold: Texas ($2,500 for a felony!), Georgia, Utah, Alabama, and Tennessee. Only 6 states have it in the $400-$500 range. California was the 7th until this change. And most importantly, nothing about the change says that under $950 won't be prosecuted. It just won't be prosecuted as burglary.

    Misdemeanor shoplifting in CA is punishable by a $1,000 fine and 6 months in jail for first time offenders. However, part of the issue is that, 10 years ago, the CA Supreme Court ruled that CA prisons were unconstitutionally crowded, which is why they'd prefer to divert for first time offenders. There is discretion at work, here.

    None of that is the reason why organized retail theft is increasing, though. Retail organizations believe it is online purchase demand driven by COVID.
    Or maybe I do know that?

    And maybe I don't agree with it? Did your big brain ever think of that?

    FFS.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

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    Default The shitty progressive idea/bs thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Or maybe I do know that?

    And maybe I don't agree with it? Did your big brain ever think of that?

    FFS.
    Well you said ďthat donít enforce crimesĒ and the only one getting shit on here and in the media for that is California. No one is posting and the media isnít covering shoplifting cases in Texas, for example. And also, it isnít true. People are still prosecuted for shoplifting, even if it is a misdemeanor, just like theyíre prosecuted for DUIs, even if only a misdemeanor.

    I also didnít mean you, Daveís Dreidel, and only you, couldnít possibly know this, but that even someone who pays close attention to the news could be forgiven for believing California is some kind of outlier when it comes to this.

    So, they arenít going to jail for a Bog Mac, and they arenít getting away with it, which since you suggested that, is perhaps a reason I thought maybe, despite being very informed and very intelligent, might not have boned up on shoplifting law (which is totally reasonable!).

    Sorry it came across as condescending.


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    The law aside it sure seems that the majority of these looting sprees are happning in a few states. I could be wrong but while certain states may have similar laws could the prosectutors/attorny generals have a say in what crimes they want to bring to trial. Municipalities may have a say in what crimes they wish to prosecute. Similar to the anarchy in Portland. Portland simply allows it to continue because their local governemt while may have just cause to prosecute simply chooses to look the other way. I would think that in California it could be similar. I can't see the San Francisco's prosectuters have as much leeway with prosectuting as a similar counterpart in Memphis

    Maybe I am wrong but to be punished, one must break a law, be charged for a crime and be prosecuted for said crime. Is California and Tennessee the same with all three? I don't think so

 

 

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