The Official Religion Thread

[BlindtotheWorld]

U.S. Bishop Chairmen for Doctrine and for Pro-Life Address the Use of the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 Vaccine
MARCH 2, 2021

https://www.usccb.org/news/2021/us-b...vid-19-vaccine

“Pfizer and Moderna’s vaccines raised concerns because an abortion-derived cell line was used for testing them, but not in their production. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine, however, was developed, tested and is produced with abortion-derived cell lines raising additional moral concerns. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has judged that ‘when ethically irreproachable Covid-19 vaccines are not available … it is morally acceptable to receive Covid-19 vaccines that have used cell lines from aborted fetuses in their research and production process.’[1] However, if one can choose among equally safe and effective COVID-19 vaccines, the vaccine with the least connection to abortion-derived cell lines should be chosen. Therefore, if one has the ability to choose a vaccine, Pfizer or Moderna’s vaccines should be chosen over Johnson & Johnson’s.

[BlindtotheWorld]

Today is the feast day of St. Katherine Drexel, born in Philadelphia on November 26, 1858. . The second American born person to be canonized, the first who was born a US citizen.

Incredible person.

[bsbll4]

B]U.S. Bishop Chairmen for Doctrine and for Pro-Life Address the Use of the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 Vaccine
MARCH 2, 2021[/B]

https://www.usccb.org/news/2021/us-b...vid-19-vaccine

While I understand they have to take this position for doctrine reasons, I have a hard time justifying discouraging anyone from taking a particular vaccine because of cell lines (these are cells, not human embryos themselves) derived from aborted fetuses from 50 years ago. If they were taking aborted fetuses or human embryos and performing experiments on them now, then I would understand the moral issue with it. The problem lies in that there's a number of treatments or drugs in modern medicine that were derived from less than ethical research, but that doesn't mean we should treat it as fruit from the poisonous tree and not apply that technology to alleviate human suffering today. By saying that, if given the option to choose vaccines, we should choose others over the J&J vaccine means that anyone that takes this to heart is going to feel morally guilty for accepting the J&J vaccine in the first place.

I'm staunchly against all abortion, but there's a difference between cells and embryos, even if I view the reason those cell lines were originated as evil. Stopping the propagation of that cell line isn't going to change the original evil and letting the cell line "grow" on its own will not produce a human embryo. However, my hope is that scientists hear the concern people do have about these issues and use an alternate method to test and derive treatments so this isn't an issue in the future.

[BlindtotheWorld]

While I understand they have to take this position for doctrine reasons, I have a hard time justifying discouraging anyone from taking a particular vaccine because of cell lines (these are cells, not human embryos themselves) derived from aborted fetuses from 50 years ago. If they were taking aborted fetuses or human embryos and performing experiments on them now, then I would understand the moral issue with it. The problem lies in that there's a number of treatments or drugs in modern medicine that were derived from less than ethical research, but that doesn't mean we should treat it as fruit from the poisonous tree and not apply that technology to alleviate human suffering today. By saying that, if given the option to choose vaccines, we should choose others over the J&J vaccine means that anyone that takes this to heart is going to feel morally guilty for accepting the J&J vaccine in the first place.

I'm staunchly against all abortion, but there's a difference between cells and embryos, even if I view the reason those cell lines were originated as evil. Stopping the propagation of that cell line isn't going to change the original evil and letting the cell line "grow" on its own will not produce a human embryo. However, my hope is that scientists hear the concern people do have about these issues and use an alternate method to test and derive treatments so this isn't an issue in the future.

I think for all the reasons you mentioned, the Church isn't prohibiting receiving the J&J vaccine. I think the position of, "if you can choose, options A&B are less problematic than C but we are ok with all three" makes good sense.

[It's Mike]

I think for all the reasons you mentioned, the Church isn't prohibiting receiving the J&J vaccine. I think the position of, "if you can choose, options A&B are less problematic than C but we are ok with all three" makes good sense.

Agreed

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[ziggysmalls]

I don't see a problem what they said. You have three options. If you are wanting to know our position, pick the other 2

[CaboChris]

Honestly, I'm tired of hearing the CC's position on anything anymore.

[CaboChris]

Might as well rename this the Catholic Church Thread.

[ziggysmalls]

Yes doesn't seem that there are not a lot of Protestants around these parts :-)

[I Coulda Hada VH]

Honestly, I'm tired of hearing the CC's position on anything anymore.

What about the missionary position?

[Dave's Dreidel]

Honestly, I'm tired of hearing the CC's position on anything anymore.

Yeah, I'm tired of Cabo Chris too....

[jimmy812]

Yeah, I'm tired of Cabo Chris too....

Uh-oh...no space between Cabo and Chris.

[It's Mike]

Might as well rename this the Catholic Church Thread.

Only one that matters.

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[I Coulda Hada VH]

[BlindtotheWorld]

Justin Martyr's description of Christian practice from about 150 AD.

CHAP. LXV.—ADMINISTRATION OF THE
SACRAMENTS.
But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching,
bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may
offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all
others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our
works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved
with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss.(3) There
is then brought to the president of the brethren(4) bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he
taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and
of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive
these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people
present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to
genoito [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their
assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and
wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent
they carry away a portion.
CHAP. LXVI.—OF THE EUCHARIST.
And this food is called among us E ukaristia (5) [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to
partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed
with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as
Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like
manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh
and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the
prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh
and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.(6) For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them,
which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took
bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me,(7) this is My
body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My
blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of
Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with
certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.
CHAP. LXVII.—WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS.
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help
the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the
Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called
Sunday,(1) all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of
the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader
has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then
we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and
water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to
his ability,(2) and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a
participation of that over which thanks have been given,(3) and to those who are absent a portion is
sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what
is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who,
through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers
sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on
which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought
a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day
rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the
day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples,
He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.