Where would VH be right now if they had continued with Gary? - Page 3
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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post


    Hmmmmm......I was thinking a little more eastern bloc, but I agree fully, Comrade.
    Last edited by we die young; 08.19.14 at 03:04 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulsitive View Post
    Maybe Gary did know that, but he just wanted to be in Van Halen. Shit, I would join Van Halen even if they told me the entire new record was going to be Al farting on a snare drum.
    Isn't that what a few of those tunes on the album consisted of?
    Friggin' Mike Post! Mustv'e figured since Yoko pulled it off, it would be even better with a band of VH's pedigree. Hack!
    Last edited by we die young; 08.19.14 at 03:19 PM.

  3. #33
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    They'd be in the same place where they are now.....their tenure with Gary would've only lasted 2 albums at the most.....
    I was looking forward to the 2nd album, and its a shame we never got to see it...
    between 99' and 03' were pretty glum years. would've been good if we had an album in there...
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ain't Talkin' Bout' Love View Post
    there was no way they could have continued with him. They'd be less relevant than Dokken, who still release some okay albums, and VH couldn't even do that with Gary.
    Come on, man.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by noise next door View Post
    they should just install 5 C-C cameras in 5150

    and

    then they can charge us all $4.99 a month to watch the daily jam sessions online
    THAT, is the best fuckin' idea from out of here,
    in a LONG time!

  6. #36
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    There were alot of things that killed VH III other than Gary. Gary, as himself, a song writer, & performer was the least of it. First of all, who thought using Mike Post as a producer was a good idea? The guy's producing credits were TV ads for Christ sake! What made Ed think he could produce a Van Halen album? Second was how the album was mixed...it was a crap mix with no distinction between the 3 instruments...you couldn't hear the bass at all, plus the type of guitar sound Ed used wasn't typical of previous VH albums....fans didn't like it....Third, the songs themselves.....How Many Say I? WTF!! I get that Ed was trying to branch out a little but someone should have reigned him in a little....no, alot! If they had a producer like Andy Johns, took a more classic approach to the songwriting and just let Gary be himself when he sang, the album probably would have been a whole lot better....then when Gary got up onstage and started belting out older DLR tunes that no one had heard live with Sam, the fans would have had a far more positive view of Gary....he's the only singer so far who could sing both era's....if he had a stronger album behind him that actually sounded like Van Halen, I'm sure the outcome would have been different.....Gary did the best he could with the cards that were dealt to him, the over all failure of it was hardly his fault....
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by we die young View Post
    Hmmmmm......I was thinking a little more eastern bloc, but I agree fully, Comrade.
    thats a fine compliment from loyal VH Groupies!

  8. #38
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulsitive View Post
    I don't know if I'd go that far with it. The difference is a band like Dokken was NEVER as big as VH was even at their lowest point (which would be 99-06ish I guess). So they probably wouldn't ever hit that level. They'd probably at the least be on the level of someone like Foreigner or something. Still drawing people, but way more of a nostalgia thing.
    Maybe so, but I just listened to VH 3 again yesterday and it's so mind-bogglingly bad it's damn near dangerous to expose oneself to it. They never, EVER could have continued with Gary.

  10. #40
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    In the vast majority of hard rock bands, the lead guitarist and the vocalist are two most important members.

    They start off by firing an all time great front man.

    Then they tease the return of their original front man (also an all time great).

    Then they hire Cherone. Ok, might work, but he is just not the same caliber as DLR or Sam.

    Then they change how they write their songs.

    They hire a first time producer.

    They change their guitar tone.

    They continue to push to the side a great bass player and background singer.

    And all of that might have been forgiven, if, IF, Ed and Gary while writing together could have found a hook or a melody. They couldn't, there aren't any on VHIII. Love or hate Sam, he can write a vocal hook. Love of hate DLR, he can write a vocal hook. Not Gary's strong suit..at all.

    Combine no hooks, no melody, poor vocals, poor production, Ed's endless meandering wanking, and no Michael Anthony, and you have VHIII.

    Gary is much better off where he is now. In Extreme and out of Van Halen.
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  11. #41
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    At this point I feel bad for piling on VHIII but I am also still just in shock at what a mess it is. I'm listening to Josephina while I type this, just grabbed something from III at random as a reminder.

    It's doubly frustrating for me because I know many fans of established bands will immediately turn their back on anything that's not the same as what they've always gotten. That's always frustrated me. I mean hell, I'm a hardcore Rush fan, they've always pushed out from what they're "supposed" to be and they've certainly alienated fans along the way. But I always enjoyed the adventures outside the norm. Judas Priest is my favorite metal band by far and they've also made some albums that made a lot of their fans go "WTF?!" but I almost always enjoy those detours.

    So I know that I'm perfectly open to my favorite bands doing different things and I always give them more than a fair shot. But damn, I've been trying to find something to enjoy on III ever since it came out and I'm just at a loss. As DD said above, it's almost totally devoid of any hooks or melodies, just totally aimless. And yeah, diminishing Mike and terrible production don't help any either, but I could still be ok with that if I liked the songs. I don't think there's one song I actually like, I'm forced to look for little pieces of goodness. A bridge here, a solo or intro there. And I feel bad for Ed because I really do think he put a lot into it. I never doubted his effort. But the execution is just plain terrible in my opinion.

    Of course any album is going to have some fans and I know some people really do enjoy III and that's cool. I would never try to discourage them. Trust me, I know how annoying it is for someone to try to tell me that I "shouldn't" like something because most others don't. Like any work of art it will speak to some people, and that's cool. I'd say once every year or two years I listen to the whole thing to see what I've missed, every now and then there are songs or albums that years down the road make me say "Wow, this is awesome, I don't know what was wrong with me before!"

    But with III.... nothing yet.

  12. #42
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    I feel bad writing stuff like that, because as bad as VHIII is, it's probably better than any of my original stuff.

    But there are guys on here whose original works are far superior to my ears in terms of hook and melody in comparison to VHIII. For a band of VH's caliber, (no offense meant to Brett and others), I shouldn't think a Lowtide album is far and away better than a Van Halen release.

    I just shouldn't.

    But I do.
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  13. #43
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    The obvious answer is nowhere but no doubt the next record woulda been a little different. It's not beyond the realm of possibility they coulda been bailed out by a ballad , or a pop song, becoming a huge hit.

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    I always get a feeling that people on this board are still biased after the DLR/VMA PR-wreck that it was.

    Was Gary as vaudeville and flamboyant as Dave? Was he an alpha like Sam on stage? Gary is a team player and I am glad he is with Extreme kicking serious ass at each and every concert with spot-on vocals and musicianship, next to being a really, really nice guy.

    It not hard to tell that I like the album and I still play it regularly. The songs I actually like most are the ones that wander far off what VH sounded like before (Josephina, Once, From Afar, Dirty Water Dog), yet you can still hear that it is VH. How Many Say I doesn't count. It's a sort of B-side bonus track, not more. I just like to hear some change in a band's sound, not just trying to have the same sound as 20 or 30 years ago. Time's change and it changes each of us as well.

    I think if they really had toured first, some of that bias might have been shaken off a few people and VH III would have turned out differently. I am not saying more "traditional" or "main stream" VH, but there are tons of cool ideas on the album that would have needed some final polishing.

    If they had gotten through to finishing the second album, I think the songs would have flowed differently and would have felt more coherent, perhaps having given more airplay to VH that would have sustained them through the early 2000s. Who knows, if the second album would have turned out, and received more positive reviews, Ed probably would have never had those "dark years" we are discussing in another thread. The positive signals were there that Gary was slowly being accepted the longer they toured and the more comfortable the band became with each other.

    As stated before, rock was also in bad shape in those years (late 90s to mid 2000s), so any "iconic" group would have had a hard time.

    I was glad hearing the change in musical style from Fair Warning on, and the change from each album to the next during Sam's time. VH III was simply the way Ed wanted his music to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sek View Post
    I always get a feeling that people on this board are still biased after the DLR/VMA PR-wreck that it was.

    Was Gary as vaudeville and flamboyant as Dave? Was he an alpha like Sam on stage? Gary is a team player and I am glad he is with Extreme kicking serious ass at each and every concert with spot-on vocals and musicianship, next to being a really, really nice guy.

    It not hard to tell that I like the album and I still play it regularly. The songs I actually like most are the ones that wander far off what VH sounded like before (Josephina, Once, From Afar, Dirty Water Dog), yet you can still hear that it is VH. How Many Say I doesn't count. It's a sort of B-side bonus track, not more. I just like to hear some change in a band's sound, not just trying to have the same sound as 20 or 30 years ago. Time's change and it changes each of us as well.

    I think if they really had toured first, some of that bias might have been shaken off a few people and VH III would have turned out differently. I am not saying more "traditional" or "main stream" VH, but there are tons of cool ideas on the album that would have needed some final polishing.

    If they had gotten through to finishing the second album, I think the songs would have flowed differently and would have felt more coherent, perhaps having given more airplay to VH that would have sustained them through the early 2000s. Who knows, if the second album would have turned out, and received more positive reviews, Ed probably would have never had those "dark years" we are discussing in another thread. The positive signals were there that Gary was slowly being accepted the longer they toured and the more comfortable the band became with each other.

    As stated before, rock was also in bad shape in those years (late 90s to mid 2000s), so any "iconic" group would have had a hard time.

    I was glad hearing the change in musical style from Fair Warning on, and the change from each album to the next during Sam's time. VH III was simply the way Ed wanted his music to go.
    I agree with this, as I said. The end result just didn't work for me at all. It's weird, I love ADKOT, and can barely enjoy III, but on the other hand I respect Eddie's work on III far more. III was Eddie doing what he was into and was genuinely inspired to do, ADKOT is Eddie saying "Well, I guess this is what the fans want me to do..."

 

 

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