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  1. #7231
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    Default George Floyd & the protesting & rioting across the USA!

    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Point I’m making Mitch is that justice is supposed to be blind. How in the world are people supposed to remain objective when if you fart, it’s reported. Not to mention the misinformation that can come out. It’s not a perfect system. And I do get where you are coming from. However, things have gotten to a point where you are presumed guilty until innocent.

    I’ve seen the tapes Mitch. I’m not disputing dudes guilt or innocence. Just stating it’s gonna be REALLY hard to find someone not swayed by the massive coverage it got.


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    I know you’re not and absolutely, justice is supposed to be blind. Even Ted Bundy should have been presumed innocent, but I’m pretty sure he was found guilty in the court of public opinion well before any jury started deliberating. But the eye witness, circumstantial and bite-mark evidence convicted him.

    The news media has always reported on murders and whatever evidence the Police Departments want to leak to the press gets out there. And from there an interpretation on guilt/innocence is discussed.

    This isn’t anything new. CourtTV and Nancy Grace arent new.

    OJ was viewed as guilty before his trial as well based on the evidence that was reported at the time. And the LAPD’s incompetence in handling said evidence and investigation acquitted him.

    Now, if we’re talking the ‘Me Too’ movement, I agree with you. It created a “You need to prove your innocence” mentality with respect to sexual abuse allegations. There are people whose career’s were ended because nobody wanted to question the validity of the accuser.

    But with respect to murder, there either is evidence to convict or their isn’t. I’m just not sure there’s a large % of individuals who have been wrongfully convicted because the court of public opinion found somebody guilty before the trial.

    If Chauvin’s actions weren’t on video, we probably wouldn’t even be having this discussion.


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    Last edited by MF5150; 04.16.21 at 09:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    I know you’re not and absolutely, justice is supposed to be blind. Even Ted Bundy should have been presumed innocent, but I’m pretty sure he was found guilty in the court of public opinion well before any jury started deliberating. But the eye witness, circumstantial and bite-mark evidence convicted him.

    The news media has always reported on murders and whatever evidence the Police Departments want to leak to the press gets out there. And from there an interpretation on guilt/innocence is discussed.

    This isn’t anything new. CourtTV and Nancy Grace arent new.

    OJ was viewed as guilty before his trial as well based on the evidence that was reported at the time. And the LAPD’s incompetence in handling said evidence and investigation acquitted him.

    Now, if we’re talking the ‘Me Too’ movement, I agree with you. It created a “You need to prove your innocence” mentality with respect to sexual abuse allegations. There are people whose career’s were ended because nobody wanted to question the validity of the accuser.

    But with respect to murder, there either is evidence to convict or their isn’t. I’m just not sure there’s a large % of individuals who have been wrongfully convicted because the court of public opinion found somebody guilty before the trial.

    If Chauvin’s actions weren’t on video, we probably wouldn’t even be having this discussion.


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    I would agree with all your points. It makes me sick that a verdict hinges upon the city of Minneapolis and several other cities going up in flames.

    I’m not black nor do I claim to be or understand but I just get why burning shit in a case like this is gonna help a cause. Dr King wouldn’t want that.

    And I hate Nancy grace. Just throwing that out there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post

    If Chauvin’s actions weren’t on video, we probably wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
    Exactly! Cellphones & Social Media have become Judge, Jury and Executioner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    And I hate Nancy grace. Just throwing that out there.

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    I don't understand the refusal to not testify. Yes, it's a right but to me it always looks bad. Yes, I know probably under the advice of his lawyer but I bet that's gonna be a factor with the jury. This guy caused so much unrest and didn't wanna say a word in his defense. Then again, what could he say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    I don't understand the refusal to not testify. Yes, it's a right but to me it always looks bad. Yes, I know probably under the advice of his lawyer but I bet that's gonna be a factor with the jury. This guy caused so much unrest and didn't wanna say a word in his defense. Then again, what could he say?
    I'm wondering what the advice was from his lawyer, Eric Nelson. When they were getting Chauvin's invoking of the 5th on record, Nelson asked him some questions about how he was aware of his 5th, how this decision was his and his alone, and Nelson made a comment how he and Chauvin had many discussions over this issue. It made me wonder if Chauvin wanted to testify in an attempt to clear his name with his side of the story. In which case, Nelson would have warned him that the State would destroy him on cross-examination. That's why defendants rarely testify.

    It shouldn't be a factor with the jury--the judge already told them that it is in no way to be seen as an admission of guilt.

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    Here is what I have gathered from listening to attorneys and Mark Geragos' podcast.

    The biggie: it shifts the burden of proof. THe prosecution has to prove their case. Once a defendant testifies, it levels the playing field in the eyes of the jury. They compare stories as opposed to holding the prosecution to that higher standard.

    Prior acts can also be fair game. So if this cop has a history, it is typically kept from the public, but it can be used in court.

    Finally, any inconsistency gets torn apart by a prosecutor with his or her salt. Once you expose these things, stories start to fall apart, especially so if the story is not true. And since memories and our eyes play tricks on us, this also holds extreme risk.

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    Default George Floyd & the protesting & rioting across the USA!

    Quote Originally Posted by LAD-1972 View Post
    Exactly! Cellphones & Social Media have become Judge, Jury and Executioner.
    Typically if an alleged murder or manslaughter is recorded on HD video in broad daylight, that’s what many would call slam-dunk evidence. Either for the prosecution or the defence. Video doesn’t lie.

    Most murder/manslaughter cases don’t contain a video record of the alleged crime taking place...

    So I’m not sure your outrage is based in any sense of realism.


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    Last edited by MF5150; 04.16.21 at 12:53 PM.
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    Default George Floyd & the protesting & rioting across the USA!

    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    It makes me sick that a verdict hinges upon the city of Minneapolis and several other cities going up in flames.


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    It doesn’t. The evidence is what this case is hinging on. And if you listen to Ben Shapiro, it appears as though the prosecution didn’t do a very good job at fulfilling their burden.

    If Chauvin was charged and there was no video of him committing the alleged crime, he’d walk. Riots or no riots. Flames or no flames.

    His career would be over because of the court of public opinion but he wouldn’t be behind bars because of it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    Typically if an alleged murder or manslaughter is recorded on HD video in broad daylight, that’s what many would call slam-dunk evidence. Either for the prosecution or the defence. Video doesn’t lie.

    Most murder/manslaughter cases don’t contain a video record of the alleged crime taking place...

    So I’m not sure your outrage is based in any sense of realism.


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    Outrage? I’m merely pointing out that cellphone video footage is exactly what I said... Judge, Jury and Executioner. Unless the video is edited to sway a certain narrative, it’s real-time—hard to deny the facts. And, like you said “If Chauvin’s actions weren’t on video, we probably wouldn’t even be having this discussion.” It would’ve been alleged.

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    I unlike many others think cellphones are greatest thing since sliced bread. It's leveled the playing field in many respects.

    We're all on Candid Camera and you never know where "Allen Funt" may be.

    Act accordingly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    It doesn’t. The evidence is what this case is hinging on. And if you listen to Ben Shapiro, it appears as though the prosecution didn’t do a very good job at fulfilling their burden.

    If Chauvin was charged and there was no video of him committing the alleged crime, he’d walk. Riots or no riots. Flames or no flames.

    His career would be over because of the court of public opinion but he wouldn’t be behind bars because of it.


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    I still say he walks.


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    Default George Floyd & the protesting & rioting across the USA!

    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    I still say he walks.


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    Maybe.

    But that would go against your entire thesis that justice is no longer blind and that he’s already been found guilty in the media and the jury is just going to go along with that to avoid riots and fires.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LAD-1972 View Post
    Outrage? I’m merely pointing out that cellphone video footage is exactly what I said... Judge, Jury and Executioner. Unless the video is edited to sway a certain narrative, it’s real-time—hard to deny the facts. And, like you said “If Chauvin’s actions weren’t on video, we probably wouldn’t even be having this discussion.” It would’ve been alleged.
    I mistook the tone of your post with respect to you mentioning judge, jury and executioner. That’s my bad.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    It doesn’t. The evidence is what this case is hinging on. And if you listen to Ben Shapiro, it appears as though the prosecution didn’t do a very good job at fulfilling their burden.

    If Chauvin was charged and there was no video of him committing the alleged crime, he’d walk. Riots or no riots. Flames or no flames.

    His career would be over because of the court of public opinion but he wouldn’t be behind bars because of it.


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    See, I've heard that the defense did a poor job. Personally, after having watched most of the witnesses testify, I think the prosecution did a very good job. But, honestly, what the hell do I know?

    Despite the video being a "slam dunk," I don't think it would take much to sow some doubt in the minds of some jurors. The expert medical testimonies from the prosecution were very good, IMO, and absolutely necessary, but will it be enough?

    Personally, I believe there's enough for one of those charges to stick. But I wouldn't be surprised if fudd's prediction occurs. I hope it doesn't.

 

 

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