George Floyd & the protesting & rioting across the USA!

[CaboChris]

Maybe I'm giving the cop too much credit but from my experience most cops don't tend to fight with people who do as they are told.

Do as they're told?

That's the problem right there.

[TheresOnlyOneWay]

Daunte Wright had a warrant out for his arrest for attempted aggravated robbery charges after 'choking and holding a woman at gunpoint for $820 in 2019,' court papers reveal

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-charges.html

Guess that's why he was 'scared' and tried to get away.

[lovemachine97(Version 2)]

If he doesn't follow the rules he loses his job. Besides, what you're implying is that this lady cop wasn't concerned about making a mistake that would take someone else's life because she might get sued. Despite the characterizations of evil cops out for blood we see in media, I don't believe that entered in the equation here for even a second. You might be able to make an argument that cops would be more careful to not escalate a situation if qualified immunity was taken away, however I still question how effective that would actually be. Most of these things happen because the cop has a fear for his or her life and they make a snap judgment. No one is going to change their mind on snap judgment about whether they live or die simply because there's a possibility they could get sued. That's like saying when you're driving down the highway and a car crosses the yellow line coming right at you, in that split second of a life or death decision you calculate how much insurance will cover you if you turn left to avoid it and hit another car, turn right to avoid it and hit a tree, or stay straight and hope the other care swerves back and you don't have an accident. You're going to do whatever your instinct tells you is the most likely to let you live, and that's it. Finances never enter the equation.



One of those things actually happens, the other is a made up narrative.

I get what you're saying and I appreciate the use of data. Using your calculation, let's break it down even further though. If it's a 1 in 3 million chance a cop dies at each traffic stop, let's stretch that out for a career. Let's say the average cop makes 5 stops per day, 5 days a week, for 25 years. Suddenly that .000003% chance he loses his life turns into .01875, which means for every 100 police officers doing that, at least one, probably two, will not live to see retirement due to being killed on a traffic stop. Those aren't exactly the kind of odds that get people excited to sign up for that work.

These are the people that run into danger on purpose because that's their job. Most of the time they aren't any more equipped to handle that danger than the average Texan, yet that's what they sign up for because that's what we ask for when we dial 911. By pulling qualified immunity you give anyone that ever has a grievance with a police officer the option to file a civil suit against that officer no matter how valid the reason is. For $350 bucks, you can file that suit against the officer and they have to lawyer up in the hopes whatever is charged against them won't hold up (with a lower threshold for proof, as you're well aware) and they're only out the time it takes for them to appear in court and potentially the lawyer fee associated with it (assuming the court doesn't ask the filer to pay the lawyer fees in their judgment). I can't understand why anyone would think that's a tenable situation.

If you think the quality of our policing is bad now, just wait until you pull qualified immunity. For the same reason defunding the police is an near-sighted notion that leads to more crime, this would have the same result.

It's still a 0.000003% chance every approach.

Let me go back to a post I made last month.

No matter the quality of the human being, if your officer followed protocol, yet a man who posed no danger suffocates to death with a cop's knee on his neck for 9 minutes after allegedly trying to pass a fake $20, perhaps we need to take a second look at your protocol.

If cops followed protocol in executing a drug warrant, but find no drugs, do not find the person they were looking for, did not realize a family lived there, and they severely burn a baby by landing a grenade in its crib, perhaps we need to take a second look at your protocol.

If cops followed protocol in executing a warrant, but do not find contraband, nor the person they were looking for, and an innocent woman ends up dead and a cop shot, perhaps it's time to take a second look at protocol.

(I could list thousands of these.)

And if they did NOT follow protocol, it's time to take a second look at their training.

If they were trained properly and continue to make mistakes and do not follow protocol, THEN it's time to take a look at that particular cop.

This idea that danger lurks at every stop is part of why we see such escalation, whether it is the cop pulling his gun within seconds on George Floyd or the recent stop of the soldier. To me, the vast majority of this is a protocol and training issue, not an individual officer issue.

Here is why I disagree that ending qualified immunity would result in the sky falling. One, SCOTUS has ruled that courts cannot second-guess on-the-spot policing decisions for excessive force under the objective reasonableness standard. Unless an officer acts objectively unreasonably, they cannot be second guessed. Remember, QI is only necessary when someone's constitutional rights have been violated. Because they DO have to make these decisions, that what makes the legal fiction of QI so strange. It's not as if police are studying court cases to see what has and has not been "clearly established." This means QI has nothing to do with the protections people in favor of it say they want.

Two, police are indemnified in these situations. They are provided counsel and 99.98% of the settlement monies are paid by the cities. They aren't held personably liable even when QI doesn't apply. A better use of the money cities pay in these settlements is to set it aside as a form of malpractice insurance for police officers. Officers who routinely break protocol or violate the rights of citizens would then see their premiums go up and maintaining their job becomes untenable.

Three, this is a standard in no other profession. Emergency surgeries mean split second decisions are made by doctors, but only negligence is malpractice. Imagine if doctors decided they could only be sued for negligence if another doctor had made the exact same mistake as documented by a court. I don't know a single doctor who says malpractice lawsuits and having to acknowledge legal standards in their work stopped them from becoming a doctor.

Finally, when it comes to the community they must protect and serve, nothing undermines that relationship than the knowledge that police can routinely commit misconduct without being held liable for it.

[rocknblues81]

Daunte Wright had a warrant out for his arrest for attempted aggravated robbery charges after 'choking and holding a woman at gunpoint for $820 in 2019,' court papers reveal

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-charges.html

Guess that's why he was 'scared' and tried to get away.

Another violent thug for the left to turn into a hero.

Not that it changes most of what I said before.

[It's Mike]

Do as they're told?

That's the problem right there.

I don't see it as a problem. I think the fight against authority nonsense gets people into trouble, not only with cops but in life in general.


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[It's Mike]

Another violent thug for the left to turn into a hero.

Not that it changes most of what I said before.

One thing I'll say about American cops who kill innocent people is that most of the time it's not people that society will miss.

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[pickslide]

Was George Floyd a hero? It would appear not. Was George Floyd murdered? Yes. If you murder a person of questionable character, you are still a murderer. And if you are a cop, the shame is double, because you have willingly accepted the responsibility for using legal force.

The rest is sophistry.

TK