Does VH have the Adavantage?

[Zadian]

What do I mean by that? When the Sammy out/Dave in/Dave out/ Gary in chapter of the VH Soap opera went down they were still very popular. Just came off of the Balance CD and tour, Humans Being, then all the hype over the songs on BOV1 with DLR. At that point in order to continue the ride they had to do something fast, which really they did. Gary was announced, what, a month after the MTV fiasco? CD released just a little over a year later. They acted quick, and put a new CD with a new singer and new sound out at lightening speed by VH standards anyway.

My thought is that now with all that crap behind them, the Gary thing as far as sales and fan response a failure, they are kinda at this point where really they can do anything they want, they don't have the pressure they did in the 96 - 98 period. Yes everyone wants a Dave reunion, but when haven't they? Yes it will bring dumptrucks of money, but you know what? I truly believe now that if they REALLY were in it for money this Dave thing would already have happened. But it hasn't, and probably won't.

If Van Halen decides to choose a #4, or try and coherce Sammy back, only then will I truly believe they indeed have the fans at heart, because either of those two situations will bring new music, and weather anyone likes it or not, that CD will have the VH stamp on it, and in the end that is what everyone wants right?

[Limecuda]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zadian:


If Van Halen decides to choose a #4, or try and coherce Sammy back, only then will I truly believe they indeed have the fans at heart, because either of those two situations will bring new music, and weather anyone likes it or not, that CD will have the VH stamp on it, and in the end that is what everyone wants right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummmmm.......no. They have painted themselves into a corner. They toyed with the fans (Dave in '96). Sammy had grown stagnant, maybe on his own or the band's fault, but the fans were losing interest. The failure that was VIII should be sign enough that the fans expect ONE option. Nothing other than that will do.

[Zadian]

And what option is the 'one' option? Dave LMAO, what a joke. As you said, fans are losing interest, puts them in a better position to go with #4 (cause you don't care anymore) or go with Sammy again. Why is this an advantage? With the Daveheads gone they can actually create music THEY want to create. Say what you will of VHIII, but i will say it was refreshing to hear something different, and they will soon to be in a position to do something that they want to create and be proud of, and that is what music is about, and I would much rather hear something that is honest, from any band, than some sellout to record comapanies like Motley Crues' reunion, or even the KISS reunion which of course fell apart with Peter Chris bailing out.

[all dave all night]

Man I totally agree with you Zadian. I can not figure out way nobody can stand III. I really like it and I think its because it is different. Kinda the same way I felt when I first heard 5150 w/Sammy. I want them to take their time and find a new guy that fits in nicely with them. I think Dave is out of the picture and we all need to face those facts. But I also don't want it to be Sam again because it is time to move forward and try something new. If any band could pull off great success with three different lead singers, Van Halen would be the only one...

(I thought III was very good, but I thought as a whole that Gary Cherone was Bad, and I am glad that he is gone. I consider Gary the rebound guy after the nasty break up. Hopefully they can find someone that can fuckin' pull this thing off. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

[AbeVanHalen]

Hell, compared to what they've done for the last 2 years (give or take), ANYTHING would be an improvement. If they find singer #4 in the back woods of Arkansas, so be it. At least there would be ZERO expectations of the project, and they could do whatever the hell they wanted.

Aren't 10,000 sales better than zero sales? Aren't 100 seats a night in a small club better than zero seats a night? Obviously, those figures are assuming the worst.

And who knows, maybe a completely obscure release from our 'forgotten band' would be the one with enough artistic merit to at least appeal to a handful of us who wouldn't mind hearing VH venture into completely new territory. (I don't think VH3 was entirely fresh and new; it was just quite different from what anyone expected.)

Remember, if people expect nothing of you, you have nothing to lose. As such, considering their current status and reputation, VH has nothing to lose.

On the other hand, if they do something HUGE, I don't think too many people will be disappointed.

Advantage: Van Halen.

(by the way, isn't Advantage that kick-ass anti-flea medication for pets? I guess I'm now saying VH has fleas. Oh well, maybe if they itch enough they'll get on the ball and do something! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )

[Van Gully]

Besides Limecuda, I think y'all have been smokin' a lot of crack. VH has no advantage. If they go with anyone but Dave they will look like buffons (I know they're buffons anyways). How can you be at an advantage when you treat your fan base like shit? Right now they have only two true options: 1) Record and tour with Dave, or 2) Retire. These are the only options, as a group, that will help them retain any shred of dignity. Getting a fourth singer or even bringing back fat tired old Sammy won't help them. They will become the laughing stock of the music world (if they're not already) and their fan base will shrivel to virtually nothing. If they go with anyone but Dave I'll bet the farm that their next recording will sell less than III. Too many hints about Dave have been dropped. No denials, only silence, from the VH camp. If all of the sudden they come out with someone else and start bad mouthing Roth (He's too hard to get along with; we just didn't click musically anymore) they will look like fools. I just don't don't see how some of you can say that they are at an advantage. Why? Because some die-hard fans are so hard up that they'll take anything from their music heros? That's an advantage? That sounds like sorry weak shit to me. I think Ed and Alex know their shit is real weak right now and that's why we haven't heard diddly squat from them in the last couple of years (anything of substance that is). It's hard to be at an advantage when you're fighting up hill, you have run out of rounds for your weapons, and you're leaderless.

[Eddymon]

Sammy was stagnant?

I wouldn't call it stagnant.

Balance was a good record, maybe not quite up to 5150,OU812, or F.U.C.K. , but still good.
And the tour was still great even with Eddie's hip keeping him almost stationary during the shows.


All things need a "re-spark" at some point.

What do you call Diver Down, even WACF wasn't "great", sure it had a few good tunes but overall not as good as 1, 2 or FW.

That was Van Halen's low-point with Dave and then they struck gold with 1984.

So if Sam is coming back, I expect a damn good album because the ideas will be fresh.


[img]smilies/devil.gif[/img]

[tap1966]

I agree with every word Van Gully wrote. Not sure if that will scare him or me more [img]smilies/scared.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Vince]

For one, Eddies got to stop fucking with the sound, he went to a much more commercial sound on 1984 and it worked out fine, he stayed with that style on 5150 and to some extent OU812. F.U.C.K. was an OK Cd , not as good as the previous 2 with Sammy, then Balance was another change in musical direction. Sammy did mention that he thought Balance was to Cerebral and I agree. VH3 is just not what the fans want. Eddie's got to get back to some sembalance of one of the previous styles. Eddie can not stray to far from what he does or his trade mark sound. It's a Californnia Rock band, do California Rock!, don't try and be F'in Pink Floyd.

[Van Gully]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonathan:
I agree with every word Van Gully wrote. Not sure if that will scare him or me more [img]smilies/scared.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do not be afraid Jonathan. You are but one of the many blessed who have been enlightened and refreshed by my fountain of common sense. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[AbeVanHalen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Van Gully:
Besides Limecuda, I think y'all have been smokin' a lot of crack.

Yep, and it's some good shit, too!

VH has no advantage. If they go with anyone but Dave they will look like buffons (I know they're buffons anyways).

In all honesty, their current image (to the general public) is so bad, they really can't sink much lower. They have nothing to lose, EXCEPT to the die-hard fans. If they cared about their die-hard fans, we wouldn't have gotten the silent treatment for so long.

How can you be at an advantage when you treat your fan base like shit?

Again, they really have nothing to lose at this point; things can only get BETTER.

Right now they have only two true options: 1) Record and tour with Dave, or 2) Retire. These are the only options, as a group, that will help them retain any shred of dignity.

Retain? Too late for that. Regain? Dignity??? Does dignity seem to be first and foremost on VH's mind lately?


Getting a fourth singer or even bringing back fat tired old Sammy won't help them.

It would help them get a cd out, which is MORE than they have going for them right now.

They will become the laughing stock of the music world (if they're not already) and their fan base will shrivel to virtually nothing.

They pretty much are the laughing stock, and have been for 5 years. At this point, they have 2 sects of fan bases: the OLD fan base, which is the Dave-or-a-shave segment, and the TOTAL fan base, which is all VH fans minus the first group. In 2001, that fan base does NOT constitute a formidable demographic market share anyway. Anything under a million or two renders them 'small potatoes', and therefore irrelevant to the company's bottom line.

If they go with anyone but Dave I'll bet the farm that their next recording will sell less than III.

If it was Sammy, I think they'd have sales comparable to what they'd have had if he never left. If it's a 4th singer, then sales are obviously no longer an issue for them, and could therefore just do it for the music, and not the fans' choices.

I just don't don't see how some of you can say that they are at an advantage. Why? Because some die-hard fans are so hard up that they'll take anything from their music heros? That's an advantage? That sounds like sorry weak shit to me.

That's what a die-hard fan IS-someone who will take ANYTHING from their heroes, be it sports, music, movies, whatever. And who's to say VH has any interest in their die-hard fans-their actions/inactions of the last 2 years suggest otherwise. If they are not concerned with die-hard fans, then they have ZERO expectations to live up to, except their self-imposed ones. They can afford to do what they want, despite what would make the fans happiest. That, to THEM, is an advantage.


I think Ed and Alex know their shit is real weak right now and that's why we haven't heard diddly squat from them in the last couple of years (anything of substance that is). It's hard to be at an advantage when you're fighting up hill, you have run out of rounds for your weapons, and you're leaderless.

The only people they really have to fight is THEMSELVES; the industry has basically written them off, as have millions of fans. While there is pressure from the fans, and WB, that's all PHONY. It's like peer pressure; there is NOBODY that can make you do something you don't want to except yourself. These guys have the option to retire at any point they so choose. As such, the ball is in their court to do with as THEY please. As musicians, that's a BIG advantage. Whether it sells or not, or saves their reputation, or appeases the public, well...that's a different story. And judging by the way they have treated those people lately, it doesn't seem to matter much to them at this point.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Advantage: Van Halen, based on the fact that they can walk away at their leisure, OR make new music at their leisure, with complete and total disregard to what we fans want, hope, or think would be the 'best' thing for them to do. If we consider them to be retired for the moment, ANY material from them is a plus, no matter what you, I, or anyone else thinks of that material or the way it's delivered.

[hain23x]

for the 23rdmillionth time

VH/Dave=climactic
VH/Sammy=anticlimactic
VH/4thsinger=spastic


[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Van Gully]

hain23x speaketh the truth.

[Mario VH]

I honestly think it has to be either Dave or Sammy. Those two were proven winners in the Van Halen formula and the Gary experiment was by VH standards pretty much a failure. I enjoyed the album as a smattering of us did but if VH were to go with a fourth vocalist a disillusioned fan base would turn on them that much more. Even if the album was the second coming of Led Zepplin IV it would still be an uphill battle. Let's also keep in perspective that Warner might have a say in the matter as to who sings for VH. They took a pretty big hit with VH3 and to go with another unproven commodity would not sit well with the suits. Get Dave or Sam back and give the fans what they want.