Before Van Halen

**naturallywired** · 03.31.01, 07:16 PM

Prior to joining Van Halen, Sammy Hagar was primarily known as a hard rocker. It has been said that the union of Van Halen and Hagar,or "Van Hagar", became a cheese factory. My question is: who influenced whom? Did the self proclaimed "Red Rocker" cause VH to become a Wisconsin wannabe, or is the opposite the case? Did Edward's new found musical maturity cause Hagar to explore a different musical angle? Just a few points to ponder.

**MikeL** · 03.31.01, 07:35 PM

Musically or lyrically? I think they managed to create something new in both cases. Sammy never sang like he did with VH, and Eddie never got the chance to write stuff like 5150 with Dave.

Like any good collaboration, it was different than what came before it.

Cheese is a relative thing. Dave and Sammy write about different things, in different ways.

**Eyes of the Night** · 04.01.01, 03:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by naturallywired:
Did Edward's new found musical maturity cause Hagar to explore a different musical angle?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah, I don't think so NW. It's cool that you threaded the opinion like that cause I never heard it quite like that. What I think all it was was just the plain fact that the "maturity" that you say he possesed is really just the fact that Ed could write a whole new catalouge of songs since Sammys vocal range enabled Ed to tune in standard tuning. Well, thats one reason I dunno about the 2nd n' 3rd right now but I'll post those a lil' later I guess.

**naturallywired** · 04.01.01, 05:40 AM

You make an excellent point. Standard tuning would certainly have brightened up the music a bit,but my question is still who really caused VH to become the power pop band so many people refer to them as? You've got Hagar's Montrose days, followed by his solo career, and you've got Van Halen's own ass kicking, hard rocking past with Dave. I think everyone would agree that "chesse" was not the norm in those days for either party. What happened? I feel you could write a cheese ballad regardless of the tuning used. A chord progression is a chord progression, regardless of key. The same holds true for melody as well. Was it a mutual thing? Did the new MUSICAL direction, with lots of keyboards cause Hagar to sing more melodically, or did having a tenor in the band versus a baritone cause Ed to approach the writing of the music differently? I have no opinion here. I'm just interested in more excellent points like the previous post.

**naturallywired** · 04.01.01, 05:42 AM

I meant to say "cheese" not "Chesse". I doubtmuch chess was being played by any of those guys in those days. Dave probably played "chest" on more than a few occasions.

**Romeo Delight** · 04.01.01, 05:44 AM

I think Eddie was looking to evolve and try new things and Sammy's entrance into the band enabled that to take place. I don't think you can blame any one person for the cheeziness of Van Hagar (although all you have to do is listen to "Get Up" or "Amstadam" to realise they were not exactly 100% cheezy - just a greater percentage than DLR Van Halen). It was just a combination of Sammy's and Eddie's goals that contributed to Van Halen's sammy era sound.

**Eyes of the Night** · 04.01.01, 05:59 AM

Nope, gotta disagree with you there RD. Songs like "hot summer nights" and "DTWLCD" are the reason Van Hagarism

...

IF that makes sense, prob not I'm in FBM! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ...

**naturallywired** · 04.01.01, 06:03 AM

Bocephus mode? It's a way of life!

**Eyes of the Night** · 04.01.01, 06:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by naturallywired:
Bocephus mode? It's a way of life!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No fucking way! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] You know the ways of Bocepus mode too! Kick ass NW, all this time though I pronounced it boceebus just cause that's what I heard from SH voice on LWAN. Good call NW [img]smilies/devil.gif[/img] ...

**Cabo Kid** · 04.01.01, 11:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Romeo Delight:
I think Eddie was looking to evolve and try new things and Sammy's entrance into the band enabled that to take place. I don't think you can blame any one person for the cheeziness of Van Hagar (although all you have to do is listen to "Get Up" or "Amstadam" to realise they were not exactly 100% cheezy - just a greater percentage than DLR Van Halen). It was just a combination of Sammy's and Eddie's goals that contributed to Van Halen's sammy era sound.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that pretty much says it all right there. I mean, VH had some cheesey-ness to them during the latter DLR years, but it wasn't bad cheesiness. Does that make sense? Their outlook on things during the last part of DD and during 1984 seemed real party boy / schtick video concepts (ie: HFT, Pretty Woman, the simpleness of Jump).

Now, usually when VH version 2.0 is referred to as cheesy, it has a negative feel / vibe implied. Did VH change it's approach to making music and overall sound when Sam joined? Absolutely. Was Sammy a bit awkward at times (ie: during the spoken part of Panama)? Sure. But, imagine how difficult it would have been for anyone to come in after DLR and try to not only win over the throngs of fans, but keep the vibe of the live shows somewhat consistent.

Just look at the 49ers. Super Bowl champs umpteen times with 2 different QB's. Different styles but both JM and SY got them the prize.

I guess that's my point. Dave is Dave, Sam is Sam. 2 different guys who made one band kick ass...twice! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

**Vic Vega_0609** · 04.01.01, 11:12 AM

Well, in the March issue of Guitar World they talk about 1984 as one of the most influential hard rock albums of all time (I concur, BTW) and they have a lot of great Eddie quotes. Here's one:
"It's a pretty well-known fact that certain people didn't want me playing keyboards on 1984 because they thought I should only be a 'guitar hero. But, hey, I'll play a Bavarian cheese whistle if I play it well-whatever that is."
Translation-Roth wanted to stick with the more traditional hard rock sound and Eddie wanted to branch it more, which is believable because I don't only consider Eddie to be the greatest guitar player of all-time, he's just an all-around brillaint musician. So naturally he's going to want to experiment more. When Roth left, he could work with keyboards to his heart's content. Bottom line.

**POJO_Risin** · 04.01.01, 11:35 PM

Back in the day, I would have had some fun with this one...but now I'm much more mature...married...a webmaster...ahhh what the hell...

What did Sammy bring to the band? Cheese? Hell, Sammy comes to this band and collaborates with Eddie. Eddie writes the music...Sammy writes the lyrics. Similar arrangement that Ed had with Dave. Sam comes in loving everyone...Aliens...wondering when to love...seeing love walking in...not being able to stop loving you...and hey, don't you tell me what love can do...

Eddie at the same time was playin' around with the keyboards...movin' to VH lite per se...

Dave more or less made Ed's keys sound raunchy...if nothing else. Kept the love out of rock ballads. Noone's gonna call I'll Wait and Jump fluff...compared to some other Dave stuff...sure...compared to Sam stuff...nada.

Ed and Sam met each other at the wrong damn time...well...like there was a good time. Sam's about the white light. Van Halen was about turning off the lights...turning up the music...and bangin' the hell out of someone else's loved one.

Is that so wrong?

Have a nice day...

**pkjr** · 04.02.01, 05:02 AM

"Cheese" is what you say when someone takes your picture.
Or perhaps it was one of Sammy's many food metaphors that he used in his songs..
Anyway what Sammy did was complete a pretty good combination with a pretty good voice and they made 4 pretty damn fine albums... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]