The State of Rock

[Digger00]

I just want to get everyone's take on this, since we have no "real" VH news.

Every ten years or so, a band comes along and takes Rock out of its doldrums and back to the forefront of music. Think about it, in the 70's, you had Zeppelin mostly, but also Aerosmith and then VH broke the mold in the latter part of the decade. In the 80's, definitely VH and then Guns N Roses. In the 90's, you had Nirvana, which was then followed by the "grunge doldrums", which we're still trying to break out of.

Now, in the 00's, we're stuck in the "I don't know if I wanna rock or rap" doldrums of the Limp Bizkuts, and Korns of the world. Don't get me wrong, they're okay musicians and lyricists, but they're all DEFINITELY riding a nice train. None of them are taking the music world to the next level like Zep, VH, Aerosmith, GNR and Nirvana did. Before these heavyweights, no one was doing what they were doing as good as they did it. Sorry Limp and Korn fans, yours bands just don't do it.

VH is in the perfect position to take back Rock. Do they see this? Even Aerosmith, who just recently released an album, is now at the stage of almost selling out. Cmon, the Super Bowl? And worse yet, singing with NStink?! I lost alot or respect for those guys, even though I'm a fan (but only by a thread).

VH is poised, and I hope they can see the opportunity in front of them. The State of Music is pretty dismal right now. It is SCREAMING for a band to come along and save it. And the timing is right. It's almost ten years since Nirvana. Cmon VH, don't fuck up this opportunity like you did the last reunion. The world will embrace you and Roth and the golden carpet ride will be not only fun for all, but lucrative for you.

Sorry for the long post, had to get out the obvious. I'm sure that VH doesn't read the lowly posts of the likes of us, but sometimes we do have something insightful to say. Let's see your insightful thoughts, fellow lonely, waiting VH fans.

[Glenn]

It sounds great, but it isn't going to happen. In order to make the kind of lasting impact on music that you're talking about, you have to appeal strongly to the young. This kind of "change the landscape" thinking doesn't come from old farts like me (I'm 29 BTW), it comes from younger people who are going to be inspired to pick up an instrument for the first time by this new force or music, or to paint a picture, or to write movies, or what have you.

Look at any band that got huge (the Beatles, the Stones, Zep, Aerosmith, GnR, Nirvana) and it's primarily a youth movement that drives it to begin with. And unless Van Halen can tap into that, what you speak of won't happen. People (generally speaking) of my age group aren't looking to their music as a social barometer like we did when we were younger and more naive.

Now Van Halen, as we see here on the Links, has some great fans in the younger age groups that could fuel this kind of "take over the world" mentality in rock, but I just don't believe there's enough of them to make the kind of impact that will cast aside rock/rap or boy bands.

This does lead me, however, to a certain fear about what VH will do PR wise when they get rolling. I would guess WB isn't going to drop 15 million dollars into VH just to sell 1 million records to primarily die hard and previous era fans. They'll want to take a stab at rallying the young market, and I wonder what things they'll be pressuring VH to do; things similar to the moves that Aerosmith have made that we've been so critical of.

I hope that made sense. I think VH will sell well, but capturing the whole world and grabbing rock by the throat just isn't something I see happening. I know the comparisons aren't written in stone, but I liken it to the Rolling Stones; they sell a set number of records, do amazing concert business to fans of all ages, and stay true to their vision but really don't make any kind of cultural impact at all.

And while I can tend to be pretty apathetic about it, I agree with by buddy DIF's notions about voting in these rock polls online. In a fun way, it would be nice to try to infiltrate just one person's mind who loves rock/rap or boy bands or whatever. If they see a VH video, maybe they'll see what we see, the greatest rock and roll band ever.

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More perks than Elvis' night stand!!!
www.vhlinks.com

[DiverDowninKY]

I agree with alot of the things you both had to say. I'm an older fart(36) than Glenn and I can remember hearing the first VH album at a relatives house in '78 and just freaking.
We just sat that with mouths wides open, we had never heard anything like it. But I think alot people foreget that while the first 4 albums sold well, it wasn't about selling albums or taking the music industry by storm it was about attitude, raw energy,
and waiting for them to come to your town and tear the place up. To me at least it's not so much about overall acceptance but about the things I just mentioned..that to me is the true spirit of The Mighty Van Halen. And to be honest I'm not sure if most people are ready for those things the "original" VH was not corporate rock in any way shape or form. They did what THEY wanted to do...if you liked it cool if not they didn't give a damn. Ok...I'm rambling


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"Without people like you there could never be people like us." DLR 1984

Van Halen Video List

[Eddymon]

There does seem to be a shift in music over the last several months to the "classic" rock bands. Much like we had in the late 80's.

this trend seems to happen like its a transition phase into the next big wave.

Bands like VH, GnR and Aerosmith are getting plenty of play on all rock stations around here

[KenyonVincent]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eddymon:
Bands like VH, GnR and Aerosmith are getting plenty of play on all rock stations around here<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that's exactly what they need. I here classic =VH= more than I used to, and I listen to the radio less than I did before. It's a good sign.



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Kenyon Vincent-the linker formerly known as Red-Balled Mammoth.
"God bless ya southern California, you people are bad-asssss"-DLR at the '83 Us Festival.
"No, that's not a microphone in my pants. I'm just happy to see ya, Californiaaaaaa!"-DLR at the '83 Us Festival

[topik killer]

i heard WCTBL twice in the span of ten minutes. then i got really excited again about VH making a truimphiant return. there are no bands like VH anymore. just a kick ass rock band. no i'm pissed at the world stuff that has gone stale. i see artists like SAMMY,DIO,ALICE,MEGADETH all going to smaller labels to get away from pre-fab boy bands and girl groups. rock music was never intended to be top of the charts. 3 DOORS DOWN mentioned VH last night, so i think younger people do know something of the band we all love. many intimators but no duplicators. they have there own sound. there aren't too many mid 40's bands that rock like VH. i'm with GLENN i do not want VH to do some lame gimmick to try to get the public's attention. if you make a good record the people and accolades will come.

[tap1966]

I agree with everything you said about the state of rock.

VH will probably release a very good album and sell a couple of million copies. They'll also sell an awful lot of concert tickets. However they will be viewed as a nostalgia act by the music and mainstream press, and as a dinosaur band by the youth. They aren't going to save or change anything.

[AJW]

I am going to be 33 this May and I agree with everyone that has posted on this topic especially DiverDowninKY's thoughts. He hit the nail right on the head. Oh, Glenn yes I hope they don't sell out either. Makes you wonder when you hear Edward going to Britney Spears and N'Stink concerts. I know I know he went to those for Wolfie's sake but you never know what he could be thinking. I don't think you have to worry. If Diamond Dave is at the healm I don't think he could be the type of person to sell out. He's too smart and creative to do that. He'll find another way for the band to gain the limelight.

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Al and I are the real Van Halen. There could always be Van Halen as long as it's me and Al. But if there was no Dave, this place would be pretty empty tonight. - EVH during a 1984 pre-concert interview before that night's sold out show

And there's only one David Lee. I'm the fun in Van Halen, always will be. - David Lee Roth

When classic Van Halen is together it's like one person. When I say 'I' in this respect, I mean my whole cadre that I am part of. I'm the tear boss, and I'm a fuckin' lifer. - David Lee Roth

"In America, we believe big time in publicizing the shit out of 'we ain't talkin'.' First we make goddamn sure that everybody knows we ain't saying anything..." - David Lee Roth

[Stuff No More]

Glenn, my esteemed Yoda, I honestly have to disagree with you.

What determines the changing face of music is RECORD COMPANIES. Stop and think for a minute - a band has to be signed in order for them to have released that see the light of day and hit radio. Now, record labels like to make money, which means they ride trends. Why do you think we had "Bon Jovi knock-off syndrome" for a while in the '80s? Why was grunge suddenly everywhere? Why, oh why, do these talentless rock and rap bands keep springing up? Because right now they sell.

So what happens is sometime soon something comes out of left field. Due to the pull of an established act or the vision of an enlightened exec, a different style of band is given a chance. Then people hear it and it totally sweeps them off their feet and the album SELLS. Soon every label is rushing to capitalize and signs up all the existing talent in that sound. Radios get flooded, the old is pushed off the air, and people lose interest in what was once "hip."

I'm not saying VH can start a revolution, but if they capture market attention enough for labels to take a chance with other traditional sounding hard rock acts - both signing, releasing, and promoting albums - well, then we'll see a revolution.

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Fall in line, say the word...
VHLinks Forum Moderator (Opinions)
Up Front Fanatics!

[Glenn]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuff No More:
Glenn, my esteemed Yoda, I honestly have to disagree with you.

What determines the changing face of music is RECORD COMPANIES. Stop and think for a minute - a band has to be signed in order for them to have released that see the light of day and hit radio. Now, record labels like to make money, which means they ride trends. Why do you think we had "Bon Jovi knock-off syndrome" for a while in the '80s? Why was grunge suddenly everywhere? Why, oh why, do these talentless rock and rap bands keep springing up? Because right now they sell.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And to who do they sell? Young people.

My reading of this is that we're pretty much on the same page, just a few steps apart. You're just going back an extra step.

But bottom line, sure the record companies push something, but ultimately the credit for sales has to lie with the people who did the buying, the public. Look at the Beatles; they just barely got their foot in the record company door, and were in fact on a subsidiary branch of a major label and "stuck" with a producer who the label had no faith in, one George Martin. And we all know how that turned out, and that's because they struck a chord with the youth of their time. Sure the adults loved them too for their image, but it's the young people that grabbed a hold of them with religious fervor that caused them to become a cultural benchmark. Their record company can't take much credit in that.

And that's the same for any of the bands that stand above the others in terms of being thought of as culture shaping artists; The Beatles, the Stones, Nirvana etc. I think you're talking more along the lines of what happens by record companies after the trend setter makes his mark, whereas I'm talking about the trend setter himself. The arguement I was making was in terms of VH being in a position to make a change in the musical landscape, not just being successful. There's a big difference.



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More perks than Elvis' night stand!!!
www.vhlinks.com

[JWS_5150]

Maybe I'm biased, but I could see a lot of teenagers digging David Lee Roth.

He is the ultimate party animal. With the reunion and a new release, teenagers would likely discover the old VH records all over again, and realize how cool DLR is. They'll realize that no one can replicate the blistering riffs of Eddie Van Halen. They'll feel the Force of Alex on drums. And they'll have a hangover just watching Mikey's Jack Daniels bass on stage.

It'll just take a new release that sticks to what VH was especially good at for the first six - fun, energetic rock music that they will quickly find is much more fun and musically sensible to listen to than that NStink bullshit.

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Dirty Faced Kid & damn proud of it.

All your base are belong to us!
Somebody set up us the bomb!
Take off all 'zig'!!

Strange is beautiful.

[Glenn]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JWS_5150:
Maybe I'm biased, but I could see a lot of teenagers digging David Lee Roth.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't. Understand that I'm making this statement as a huge DLR fan and a very bald guy myself. Granted we have no idea what Dave's look will be when they come back, but I would guess that teenagers (in general of course) would laugh at Dave as he appeared in 1999. I'm 29 and bald, so obviously I don't care what Dave looks like in 2001, but teenagers would.

With his receeding hairline, they'd be laughing at him since he's old enough to be their father (in some cases Dave may actually be their father's). No way are they going to relate to some balding 46 year old guy singing about chicks and threatening to "fuck their girlfriend". I think that if Dave looked like he did in 1984, teenagers would relate to him, but not now. I would think that a 16 year old girl would find Dave creepy as hell as he is right now.

I know someone will jump on this and say that looks don't matter to the music, and I agree. But when you're selling to the teen market, it all starts with appearance.



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More perks than Elvis' night stand!!!
www.vhlinks.com

[JWS_5150]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glenn:
But when you're selling to the teen market, it all starts with appearance.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this is why music is in such a sad state.

Excellent point there - Dave doesn't look that great these days, that's for sure. Not a bash on Dave by any means, but he's aging, just like the rest of VH.

The smart teenagers will look past that, but you know it isn't going to happen with most of them.

However, the music will most likely convert some teens at least.

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Dirty Faced Kid & damn proud of it.

All your base are belong to us!
Somebody set up us the bomb!
Take off all 'zig'!!

Strange is beautiful.

[This message has been edited by JWS_5150 (edited March 03, 2001 at 07:14 PM).]

[Digger00]

Great posts everyone. Sorry, I forgot to mention that I'm one of the old farts too (31).

Glenn, I agree with your points the most. I guess what I was really trying to get across was that VH won't really take over the music world again. But rather, they will raise it up from the current doldrums. We're in such a low point right now, I believe. And I'm not saying only because there is no current VH out there. There really isn't anything right now that gets your juices flowing. Eddie (or maybe Sammy) said that when they look down at their arms and see the hairs raising up, they know that they have a good song. Nothing like that is happening right now with music.

I honestly think that if VH plans this reunion correctly, they could capture some of the younger audience (low to mid 20's). If they come out with a kick-ass album, as I'm thinking that they will HAVE to do to make the reunion work, the music will speak for itself. The younger crowd will have to raise up and say that it works, unless they're all deaf.

Great posts everyone.

[SactoFan]

I agree with most of the points here...

My first point...ROCK HAS LOST IT'S ROLL!! It doesn't swing anymore...it beats you on the head relentlessly...An audience will tire of this soon...mark my words!

I see your points, Glenn...However, I really think VH new album will trigger a VH renaissance among young kids...There is precedent for this...How many 15 year old guys do you see walking around wearing Led Zep shirts...I see a bunch of them...VH is that type of band...a band who won't go away from public consciousness anytime soon...

As to Dave being "creepy." I agree...I wouldn't leave my daughter alone in a room with the guy...But, he has the classic rebellious attitude, and kids have ALWAYS responded to that...

I REALLY think we are looking at a VH period much like the "Permanent Vacation" and "PUMP" years from Aerosmith...

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"Van Halen fans been hangin' in there for a long time...they're probably the best fans in the world..."-Sammy

"Forget all about that macho shit and learn how to play guitar"-Mellencamp