Western states wail: California to blame

[voivod]

By ANGIE WAGNER
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

LAS VEGAS — It's dead inside Favorites bar this afternoon, where the propped-open door spills a bit of light onto the ancient Elvis pinball machine and the grumpy man puffing on a cigarette in front of the video poker machine.

There's no food here, unless you count the vending machine against the green wall. Owner Ray Medrano had to make a choice: Close the kitchen or ban smoking in the joint. His customers love their smokes more than their food, so the kitchen lost.

For Medrano, there's only one despicable group of people to blame for Nevada passing a smoking ban that eliminates smoking in restaurants and bars that also serve food: Californians.

"California has a negative influence on our society," he said, glancing around as cigarette smoke fills the stuffy place. "They should keep their world in their world."

It's a popular refrain from many in the West.

When Californians move in, it's always their fault when things change. They infect the rest of the region with their politics and questionable driving, and make housing prices soar.

Sure, it's been 30 years since Oregonians first slapped "Don't Californicate Oregon" bumper stickers on their cars, but, as in the song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers, "Californication" still is alive and well.

"I think it's just such a common desire to say things were really calm and great here and then these people came in," said Patty Limerick, history professor and faculty director of the University of Colorado's Center of the American West.

Since 1991, the number of Californians moving out has topped the number of people moving into the state. And where do they go?

The top five states Californians moved to from 2000 to 2005 were Arizona, Nevada, Texas, Washington and Oregon, according to William Frey, population expert for the Brookings Institution.

Many Californians want what eludes them in their state — open space, clean air and less traffic. So they sell their houses for a chunk of change, move somewhere else in the West, buy a bigger house and start driving up the housing prices, much to the dismay of locals.

Sherrie Watson has lived in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, since she was 16 and is fed up with Californians.

"They complain how cold it is," she said. "And they just moved here because it is cheaper and to 'get away,' but then they keep saying things like, 'We did it in California this way, so why don't you change?'

"They came here because they liked it the way it was when they visited, but then they want to change it. I don't get it."

Picking on Californians has become almost a sport, with people trying to come up with the catchiest slogans or blogging about how annoying Golden Staters are.

Montanan Tom Heatherington runs a Web site called www.montana-sucks.com that sells T-shirts and bumper stickers that say: "Montana sucks. Now go home and tell all your friends."

The products aren't aimed specifically at Californians, but, let's just say the point is taken.

"Most people just have this state of mind about Californians being, how shall I say it — different — than everybody else," Heatherington said politely.

Shirley Vanderstelt, 34, is an ex-Californian who moved to Bozeman, Mont., four years ago. Mostly she has felt welcome, but "there is definitely an underlying feeling of dislike for most Californians.

"I generally tell people where I grew up, then immediately follow that with 'I'm not one of those Californians' because it usually starts with rolling of the eyes, a sigh and shaking of the head."

When John Wilker and his wife moved from Riverside to Highlands Ranch, Colo., in 2005, they were told to change their license plates quickly or they would be run off the road.

A joke? Maybe. But that resentment and clash of cultures is real.

For many Westerners, California is seen as a state of excess and an example of how things shouldn't be done. (These also are the people who elected a movie star as their governor.) Combine that with the frontier West, where residents aren't so interested in a lot of government control over how they behave, and therein lies the problem.

Yes, Californians drive up housing costs, and some can be blamed for falling prices because of the many investors who snapped up cheap houses, then wanted to sell, creating too much inventory in cities such as Las Vegas and Phoenix. Many believe those cities are becoming suburbs of Los Angeles.

"Home prices go up and we all blame Californians," said Jay Butler, director of Realty Studies at Arizona State University Polytechnic. "They are sort of like the West Coast version of the New Yorkers. They have the attitude."

But what about politics? Are Californians starting to turn the West more blue?

"I think the Democratic Party is counting on it," Frey said. "If they shifted just a little bit in the last election, (they) could have elected a Democratic president."

[fast98dodge]

Yeah...

Thanks, California...

Now our roads are busier...

House prices have climbed...

The attitudes are changing for the worst...

Smoking is banned in bars and public places...

Get the fuck outta here and go back to where you came from!!!

[mojavebassman]

The city council in my town of Springfield banned smoking, and several bars closed within in a few months. I must admit it's nice playing a gig and not going home smelling like smoke or waking up with an asthma attack. The problem is, there are fewer places to play. State of IL also wants to ban smoking in cars if you have a child 8 years old or less in the car. Also, they want to put stickers on cars that have teen drivers. They want to ban .50 caliber rifles. They also want to implement a Gross Receipts Tax so the big companies that don't pay tax will pay tax. Finally, they want to put a freeze on the utility rates that were frozen for 10 years prior to this past January.

Land of Lincoln.

yeah.

[smithjc]

Yeah same here. Welcome to Nevada.

Now go home.

I know I'm from California but this is my mommy and daddy's home where they were born and raised so now it's mine. I really wish the rest of the Californians had stayed the eff in Cali tho. It's so crowded now and they're covering every empty space with asphalt and crappy strip malls.

btw - smoking's my God-given right!! J/K! They shouldn't take that away tho. Give people choices at least.

[graeme]

First time I went to California, seven or eight years ago, I could not believe that you couldn't smoke in a bar.

Now it's happening everywhere: The UK in June, Ireland, Scotland and Italy already done. Even in France they're doing it in a year or so (that will be funny. Next revolution?)

What happened to common sense?

Make it enforcable law sure, but make it law in those places that want it. In other bars just advertise the fact : "This is a smoking bar". It's not that difficult and it's not as though people have to go into bars like they do with train stations or the like. And the argument about the health of the workers? Bollocks, if you don't like smoking don't work in a place that allows smoking. I wouldn't be angry if I couldn't get a job as a painter because I didn't like heights.

Blanket bans are idiotic.

[FORD]

I'm all for the smoking bans, because I'm allergic to the shit, and every once in a while I'd like the opportunity to kill my liver and a few brain cells without getting lung cancer.

But yeah, the housing costs and traffic really suck ass.

Also the media paranoia regarding weather. Before the fucking Californians moved up here, you didn't see **BLIZZARD WATCH EMERGENCY UPDATE!!!!** the minute the first snowflake fell from the sky.

Ironically enough, it also snowed a lot more before they all moved up here. Which would be fine if that meant we got more sunny days as a result. But hell no, just more rain. Which the FUCKING CALIFORNIANS DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE IN!!!

[FORD]

State of IL also wants to ban smoking in cars if you have a child 8 years old or less in the car. They want to ban .50 caliber rifles. They also want to implement a Gross Receipts Tax so the big companies that don't pay tax will pay tax. Finally, they want to put a freeze on the utility rates that were frozen for 10 years prior to this past January.

Uh.... please tell me you're being sarcastic about the above being "bad" things.

[Gypsy King]

In Maryland we have DC nearby to blame for all things bad.

Maryland - the state that balances its budget through excessive taxing and fining of its citizenry.

Long live red-light cameras!!

Oh yeah....we also have smoking bans!!

[ZeoBandit]

Sorry to all the Linkers who smoke, but I am glad they are putting in smoking bans. I can't stand sitting in a bar smelling that stuff, then going home and having my clothes reak of it. Like it was stated earlier, I want to kill brain cells, not die of lung cancer.

[mistere]

I dunno. Even though I'm not a tobacco user, I used to endorse smoking in
bars on the idea expressed prior; that a bar is a place of vice and you know
that going in. But visiting the South again (where smoking is allowed - for
now) after living in Cali for nigh on deacade (where it's banned), I have to
say the practice just reinforces my bias against tobacco consumption. Tobacco
is gross. And pointless, imho, and it's great to be able to have a drink where
we make you smoking bastards go outside. You know I can't smoke my shit
in here either. Boo hoo. Figure it out.

In a perfect world, we might take a hint and open up like some have
suggested, and be able to endorse our vices of choice as the community
sees fit. An idea that is wholly Californian, btw. So back off Cali's cock
already and accept the fact that we have some good ideas and
also that shit is getting crowded everywhere.

[graeme]

I dunno. Even though I'm not a tobacco user, I used to endorse smoking in
bars on the idea expressed prior; that a bar is a place of vice and you know
that going in. But visiting the South again (where smoking is allowed - for
now) after living in Cali for nigh on deacade (where it's banned), I have to
say the practice just reinforces my bias against tobacco consumption. Tobacco
is gross. And pointless, imho, and it's great to be able to have a drink where
we make you smoking bastards go outside. You know I can't smoke my shit
in here either. Boo hoo. Figure it out.

In a perfect world, we might take a hint and open up like some have
suggested, and be able to endorse our vices of choice as the community
sees fit. An idea that is wholly Californian, btw. So back off Cali's cock
already and accept the fact that we have some good ideas and
also that shit is getting crowded everywhere.

I agree on all counts, even though I still smoke from time to time.

Black and white legislation is ridiculous.There has to be bars and restaurants where non-smokers can enjoy themselves and KNOW that nobody will be smoking. On the flip-side, smokers should KNOW that they will also have places where they are able to enjoy their cigarettes.

It wouldn't take much. A "NO SMOKING" sign on the door usually does the trick, especially if it is backed by law and perhaps a fine.

I hate this idea of the governments of our countries telling us what to do all the time. A little appreciation of the fact that most people are actually smart enough to make their own decisions.

I also believe it will hurt the bar industry less too. I don't know about the US but I would guess that about 50% of pub goers in the UK are also smokers.

Let the industry decide. They seem to have a pretty good idea of what will work for them.

[mojavebassman]

Uh.... please tell me you're being sarcastic about the above being "bad" things.

Well, it's not all bad. I'm not a regular smoker so my 4 month old daughter won't have to worry about being subjected to smoke in the car, but I worry that the next step will be banning smoking in a person's home, negating the right to privacy. I don't own a 50 caliber gun, but I do own a shotgun and I believe I should have the right to own a 50 caliber gun if I choose since it is a constitutional right to bear arms. The people that are doing the most harm with guns are not the ones who take the safety courses or go through the legal channels to purchase a gun. I don't have a business that has gross receipts of $1,000,000 or more so my business won't be affected, but sure enough this increase in taxes will affect my wallet every time I go to the grocery store or buy anything at all in Illinois because the companies will pass along this tax increase to the consumers, not to mention the possibility of many companies moving out of state. Not only will there be a gross receipts tax, but also a 3% tax on small businesses who don't offer health insurance to their employees. The utility rate freeze won't affect me because I don't use Ameren or Commonwealth Edison, but they're bond ratings have been downgraded to junk as a result, and they're looking to lay off hundreds of employees to keep from going bankrupt like California.

So, yeah, I guess I'm being sarcastic.

[mojavebassman]

I'm off my soapbox now and relaxing with a cup of coffee....urge to kill fading....fading....RISING....fading......fading.. ......gone.

Time to sit in front of the warm, glowing, warming glow of hi-def tv.

[Wickett]

shouldn't the market determine whether smoking should be allowed in bars or not? If there is a demand for smoke free bars (which I assume there is), then bar owners can entice the smoke free drinkers and visa versa.

[Axxman300]

Well, there's a reason God put us on a a bunch of giant earthquake faults.


Here's the problem.

Durring the 1960s, we got a stream of hippie immigrants from the rest of the US and Canada and even Europe (our governor being one). The came here durring the mythical "Summer of Love" and never left. I say mythical because the way it's written up and the way that it really was are two different realities. "Free Love" meant fucking YOUR girlfriend, not MY girlfriend. If you did then you got knifed. Hippies talked about "Loving Nature" while polluting the Redwoods that they squatted in and stealing from people who had nothing to them.

In short, hypocrites.

Do as I say, not as I do. Live as I say, not as I do. I demand freedom, but at everyone elses expence. I have mine, everyone else can fuck off.

Right now, in Santa Cruz, CA, you can get a ticket for smoking on the beach. However, that same policemen is forbidden by the city council to arrest or site someone for smoking pot.

Right now, the state department of fish and game is planning on instituting massive restrictions on fishing are recreation on the the area around the Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary. This plan does not restrict the single largest polluter and threat to the local environment - new home building. That's because "Environmentalism" in California is a scam, run by wealthy Californians to keep property values artificially inflated by restricting low income housing with bullshit environmental laws. It keeps the Mexicans out. Sure, the Mexicans can mow thier lawns and watch thier kids, but at night they have to drive 25 or thirty miles away to where they can afford to live.

Some day they earth will move and kill a bunch of these people, I might even be one of them. However, I promise to die laughing.

Look, if some fuckwad from California moves into your town and becomes politically active you have to get in his face. If he threatens a lawsuit (most Californians will), get Iraqi on his ass. Californians are usually racists and biggots of the highest order. Anybody with a Southern Accent is a Hillbilly-inbread retards. Anybody who's Native American has never seen electricity (but whoah to the Native American who wants to hunt and kill a Buffalo, Californians won't stand for that. Native Americans should be wary, we KILLED 98% of our Indians by 1890). Black people in the South are all oppressed, but that doesn't mean that a Black person from Mississippi can move next door to them in Blackhawk. That won't do. US Circuit Judge or not.
So when some Californian moves into your neighborhood and starts trouble, get your neighbors together, and show up at their house at 1:00am and 'splain things to them.

Right now, Santa Clara is considering banning smoking in apartments and condos.