Something I've Been Thinking About

[ZachenFoot]

OK, we all know the failure behind VH3 and how much Gary was disliked by both fans and the general public. The whole thing was a total departure from Van Halen's past music, and the people weren't ready for that.

So this leads me to thinking: Where would we be if VH stuck it out for one more album with Gary? I mean hell, the album was basically finished and could've been released in early 2000. Maybe after the failure that was VH3, the musical direction could've gone back to old school VH, or something totally new. None of us know, as the songs have never been released. And "Thats Why I Love You" came out BEFORE VH3.

I don't know. The band seemed so happy, as the foursome. And while many refuse to admit it, Gary DID kick ass with the band in a live setting. The III Tour was awesome, and I would've loved to have seen more of that.

Who knows, I know many here would've given Gary a second chance. He was in a losing situation and deserved that second chance, to get away from the title as "The third singer for VH" on only one album. Do you think if he had been kept around, and the album was better, he may have been accepted by the public?

And with recent events, we know how Mike was working with the Bros. And apparently, he was working successfully with them on the second Gary album.

So, the burning question(s). Do you think if the album and tour with Gary in, say, 1999/2000, was successful, he may still be the singer of Van Halen? We may still have Mikey on bass? I mean, we know many bands who've lived on with 3rd singers, some may have more successfully than others. Sure, the public would've wanted Dave or Sam, but since when has Van Halen cared about the public anyway?

This isn't a bash Gary/III thread. Just pure speculation and I'd love to see how people feel about this.

[NOaverageJOE]

I don't think it could've happened. Eddie decided to let all his problems defeat him and embrace the bottle. I'm telling you, he let our reaction to VH3 dictate and ruin his whole life which is pathetic. But remember, he was used to constant success and praise for twenty years. The fact that VH3 only barely went gold and forced them into smaller amphitheaters was a big blow to Eddie's ego. I'm sure the studio situation for the next album was tense and Eddie probably lost it with the pressure from WB to sound like CVH and the evolving music brought on by Cherone. Eddie probably wanted to continue in an artistic direction, but couldn't handle losing the commercial success. I believe there was an argument with Gary even though they all say it was mutual. When was the last time you heard that Ed and Gary were hanging out? So, after Gary left, Eddie decided to give Dave another shot, but wanted to make sure he had control. I think this is the point where Eddie became really obsessed with control. The ironic thing is that he started drinking more due to the stress. Then cancer came. He continued to drink and smoke heavily through treatments, and I really do believe the picks were to blame...even though I'm sure smoking didn't help it. Eddie probably was a dick to Valerie through all of this and refused to stop smoking and drinking even though they both knew it was a bad influence on Wolfgang. There was probably a major fight that brought Eddie to a point where he had to decide smoking and drinking or Valerie and he decided smoking and drinking. And then it just keeps building into the gigantic snowball we're in today.

So, back to your post, it just wouldn't work unless Eddie was ready to sacrifice his ego. I'm sure it would've been interesting and I would've loved that path a lot more than where we are today, but Eddie somehow thought this was the better plan.

[VanHalenFan]

If Van Halen 3 was a traditional Van Halen record-straight ahead rock like the previous albums were, I think Gary would have been the singer for a long period of time-I say that because Ed probably would have kicked him out at some point. The reason why VH3 didn't work because it is a gigantic mess. No direction, no concept-poor production. The tour I have to say was great-I don't think Gary's performance style was the greatest but it worked. But you don't launch an album with your 3rd singer-with a album that's all over the place. You make a traditional Van Halen album, CVH or Van Hagar not something in left field. It was a new band, that needed to prove itself more so than I think VH with Sammy had too because Sammy was already at his peak commercially, where Extreme had faded.

Maybe the second, or third albums you start going off in left field.

[wingnut]

So, after Gary left, Eddie decided to give Dave another shot, but wanted to make sure he had control. I think this is the point where Eddie became really obsessed with control.

I simply don't think Eddie has all the control anymore. I believe Dave knows it.

Even I have no illusions about how much fan-capitol Ed blew.

Everybody involved has blown it. Years of potential awesome music wasted over pride.

This whole "Dave is Eddie's bitch" is total bullshit. Sure Dave couldn't keep it up on this own and needed Van Halen, but Ed had nothing left. He spent it all.

What I mean is, both Ed and Dave should be seeing each other as equals at this point, cause in reality, that's what they are.

[darthadv]

a follow-up album had potential... vh3 was kind of all over the place, so a more focused effort on a second disc should have had nothing but upside potential...

that said, i don't think that gary would've made it through more than 3 or 4 studio albums before the reunion started piling in to ed...

[AT]

It is worth mentioning what might have been had there been a second VH-Cherone album. They had several songs done and/or in the works with credible producers. There was the talk that WB was concerend about the lack of hit material, and I can safely assume they were probably right. I didn't care for Gary's voice or stage presence (or politics) much, but I did truly respect him for having the balls to get out there for every show and be the third lead singer in Van Halen, offer to sing any song from anywhere in the catalog, and not try to be one of the two previous singers. I enjoyed the two VH III shows I went to very much; the setlists were awesome, and the band sounded amazing. In another recent thread here there was some talk of the song "Once," and it mostly got great reviews. Indeed there were some very fine moments on III that get overlooked amoungst all of the bashing. That bashing exists, however, because VH fans know the potential their favorite band has, and III most definitely fell short in performance, production, and mix. Still, I would have gladly given another album a chance--especially if it meant VH would be continuing to regularly record and tour. Earlier someone suggested that Ed's ego couldn't take the bruising of the overall response to III, hence is reclusion into virtual physical and alcoholic seclusion in the years that followed. Though it is impossible to say without knowing Ed, that seems plausible to me. I would like to think that playing for semi-large crowds and working with people you like would be enough to keep going, but for reasons we've never really known that wasn't the case. Moreover, I'm sure Ed felt backed into a corner after reunion attempts with Dave in 2000 didn't work out. Sammy was bascially his only option for continued work with Van halen at that point, and he wasn't going to bring himself to call Sam. The stories of Eddie being piss drunk backstage during the last show of the '04 tour and begging Sammy to stay with VH are likely accurate; he knew VH could very well be over if it wasn't going to work anymore. But, alas, it is once again Dave.

Remember being a kid, going outside, and spinning around endlessly until you were so dizzy you couldn't walk straight? That's what it's like to be a Van Halen fan.

[vistadelrey]

It is worth mentioning what might have been had there been a second VH-Cherone album. They had several songs done and/or in the works with credible producers. There was the talk that WB was concerend about the lack of hit material, and I can safely assume they were probably right. I didn't care for Gary's voice or stage presence (or politics) much, but I did truly respect him for having the balls to get out there for every show and be the third lead singer in Van Halen, offer to sing any song from anywhere in the catalog, and not try to be one of the two previous singers. I enjoyed the two VH III shows I went to very much; the setlists were awesome, and the band sounded amazing. In another recent thread here there was some talk of the song "Once," and it mostly got great reviews. Indeed there were some very fine moments on III that get overlooked amoungst all of the bashing. That bashing exists, however, because VH fans know the potential their favorite band has, and III most definitely fell short in performance, production, and mix. Still, I would have gladly given another album a chance--especially if it meant VH would be continuing to regularly record and tour. Earlier someone suggested that Ed's ego couldn't take the bruising of the overall response to III, hence is reclusion into virtual physical and alcoholic seclusion in the years that followed. Though it is impossible to say without knowing Ed, that seems plausible to me. I would like to think that playing for semi-large crowds and working with people you like would be enough to keep going, but for reasons we've never really known that wasn't the case. Moreover, I'm sure Ed felt backed into a corner after reunion attempts with Dave in 2000 didn't work out. Sammy was bascially his only option for continued work with Van halen at that point, and he wasn't going to bring himself to call Sam. The stories of Eddie being piss drunk backstage during the last show of the '04 tour and begging Sammy to stay with VH are likely accurate; he knew VH could very well be over if it wasn't going to work anymore. But, alas, it is once again Dave.

Remember being a kid, going outside, and spinning around endlessly until you were so dizzy you couldn't walk straight? That's what it's like to be a Van Halen fan.

There is something so mysteriously energetic and smooth about Neworld and Without You. The vocals do screw it up a titch but the melody just leaves you wanting more. I have thought many times that if somebody did a cover tune of Without You w/ a really smoothed out voice that song could really deliver some lasting impressions. The solo is so electric smooth yet crunchy and mean.

Eddie was very interesting during that time. I know it didn't make a splash but I'm like you if they were still playing I'd take a second III in a heart beat. I've always wondered if Eddie lost his groove after all that. who knows.

[Ian Sane]

What I mean is, both Ed and Dave should be seeing each other as equals at this point, cause in reality, that's what they are.

I'd probably believe that if Mike was still in the band.