Why Van Halen and not KISS?

[ziggysmalls]

Ok since we are all current or past VH fans this one should not become a Sam vs Dave or Ed vs Mike thread. I am praying it does not.

Got in a discussion this weekend with a friend of mine who is a KISS fanatic. He cannot understand how KISS gets passed over for the RRHOF but VH makes it. He likes VH but nothing to the level of KISS.

Very similar bands outside of the makeup. There are basically two different era's with the bands along with famous frontmen and guitarists. Personel changes have occurred and the albums sold are somewhat similar. Public opinion states that their early work and lineup was more preferred but they both had success with other lineups. VH had the better musicians and songwriting however KISS marketed their product and became a household name. Both are considered giants of their respective era. Both can claim (along with Aerosmith) as America's greatest band.

My feeling was that the overpromotion of KISS and Gene/Paul's love of money has made them to look like whores in the eyes of the RRHOF.


What are your thoughts?

[LAMagnum]

I guess KISS will get in there in the next few years. I don't think the RRHOF has been around for very long, and many bands have yet to be inducted. Last year we were wondering why Van Halen didn't get in then. This year's as good as any, next year will also be great.

[mewise5150]

the RRHOF has only been around about ten years or so and are playing catch up with a lot of rocks greats including KISS and VH. I cant imagine KISS wont be in soon but the RRHOF is probably focusing on innovators first, unfortunatly KISS's big innovation was merchandising which we all love but not really about the music

[voivod]

KISS will be put in there when Gene decides there's something huge "$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$" to attach to it...

[mewise5150]

There is a fee when being inducted which is why the sex pistols boycotted it last year Gene probably doesnt want to pay it

[right-here-i-say]

I heard something like that the RARHOF removed a lot of their older voters and inserted a lot of younger voters (for obvious reasons, such as putting 1 hit wonders from the 60's in but leaving out VH/Kiss/Rush...it seemed like the HOF was not on track on what the people liked, it was only on track on what the older voters liked)

I assume those people probably saw Kiss to be like the Monkeys, like a big promotion thing. (The big difference is that Kiss wrote their own songs...) Either way, both deserve to be in the HOF because they both changed things.

I think with VH, if Ed would have stopped playing 82, they would have made it 1st round. The hair band thing didn't help them. Neither did the party thing. Both of these became what they were known for after Fair Warning. Cocaine is considered romantic to those old voters, alcohol is not. If Ed would have died using Cocaine, that would have helped his chances.

As for why the younger voters didn't include Kiss? Maybe they didn't want to make it obvious by putting all of the forgotten ones in the same year?

[mewise5150]

where did you hear that voters were replaced last year? is there a list out there somewhere?

[weesfreewheelin]

Maybe its because Ki$$ still tour. Maybe they need to stay dormant like VH has.

[Menlow]

They consider KISS to be a joke, a caricature of a rock band. KISS has never even made the nomination cut, let alone the actual vote.

Rolling Stone magazine, which has a large influence with the hall, in particular considers KISS to be a joke. Famously the year that Eric Carr passed away RS didn't even bother to include him in their year end issue which listed notable music deaths.That prompted a letter to the editor from Gene and Paul which they surprisingly did print.

As long as the people of influence with the Hall are still of influence, KISS will never be inducted.

[chefcraig]

The fraudulent "Voice of young America" Rolling Stone magazine is highly motivated (the editor Jan Wenner sits on the board of the RRHOF) to "cover" the Hall's attempts at loinising Rock and Roll. This same magazine has had a particularly lousy attitude toward Kiss since the band emmerged in the 70's. At the time, Gene Simmons roundly stated that he could care less, as he had little concern of what a group of aging hippies thought.

Remember, this is the same magazine that took every opportunity it could to piss all over Led Zeppelin (and it's fans), until it finally dawned on the publishing staff (around the time of the 4 cd boxed set) that the band sold alot of magazines when they were on the cover. Suddenly Led Zep could do wrong.

Zeppelin were often dismissed because they did not belong to the "great hippy generation" of bands like the God-awful Jefferson Airplane or the Greatful Dead. The folk that dug Zep were the younger brothers and sisters of these arrogant baby-booming fucktards, who have successful proven themselves to the world as being a bunch of unfullfilled idealists who never changed anything they set out to do. Rather, they got fat and rich.

Fuck Rolling Stone, fuck the piety and self-righteousness of their RRHOF and most of all, fuck hippies.

[right-here-i-say]

where did you hear that voters were replaced last year? is there a list out there somewhere?

Truthfully, I don't remember. It was when VH was nominated this year (not chosen, nominated) Something about how the HOF was out of touch, and the ceromonies had gotten pretty stale. I think the induction ceremony is supposed to be much better than the past (A bunch of people sitting at dinner tables).

[Menlow]

The fraudulent "Voice of young America" Rolling Stone magazine is highly motivated (the editor Jan Wenner sits on the board of the RRHOF) to "cover" the Hall's attempts at loinising Rock and Roll. This same magazine has had a particularly lousy attitude toward Kiss since the band emmerged in the 70's. At the time, Gene Simmons roundly stated that he could care less, as he had little concern of what a group of aging hippies thought.

Remember, this is the same magazine that took every opportunity it could to piss all over Led Zeppelin (and it's fans), until it finally dawned on the publishing staff (around the time of the 4 cd boxed set) that the band sold alot of magazines when they were on the cover. Suddenly Led Zep could do wrong.

Zeppelin were often dismissed because they did not belong to the "great hippy generation" of bands like the God-awful Jefferson Airplane or the Greatful Dead. The folk that dug Zep were the younger brothers and sisters of these arrogant baby-booming fucktards, who have successful proven themselves to the world as being a bunch of unfullfilled idealists who never changed anything they set out to do. Rather, they got fat and rich.

Fuck Rolling Stone, fuck the piety and self-righteousness of their RRHOF and most of all, fuck hippies.

Hey Craig, good to see ya.

How do you really feel about Rolling Stone?

[ZORBA5150]

Kiss was/is about the production/show, not about music or musicianship. I don't take them seriously either by those standards

[right-here-i-say]

Didn't Rolling Stone have Edward as being #72 or something in the top 100 guitarists of all time? They had Kirk Cobaine in the top 5 (or something like that).

It was totally obsurd, and I believe they lost a lot of credibility.

I agree with the other dude, that they have an agenda. They are liberal, they like hippy music, they like drugs (not alcohol), they like grunch and rap, and anyone who influenced them.

[RKVH5150]

I think Kiss is the most overrated band in the history of rock music. Awesome at marketing, but I don't feel any one of the 4 original members are good players.

Musically Kiss isn't anywhere near the league of Van Halen. If it wasn't for their facepaint gimmick and great marketing, they would have never been noticed.


Based on album sales and fan base and name recognition, they do belong in the hall of fame, but they are just so overrated to me it's not even funny.