Blu Ray vs HD DVD

[Limecuda]

I have seen Sony really trying to push this new Blu Ray technology. Will it take off and be the norm or will HD DVD get the nod.

My wife bought me a PS3 with the Blu Ray at Christmas and I have yet to even open it. I considered taking it back.

[Bob_R]

There's an article in a local paper today about this subject. I'll try and get a link for you.

[OnTheInside1985]

I've heard that right now HD-DVD is doing better. Remember that Sony made Betamax too (which from what I hear was technically superior...I'm not quite old enough for that) and it failed. So their track record isn't good. If you want games.....if you want something new and fresh and/or something you could also play with your wife and/or kids (if you have any)...the Wii is for you. I'm 21 and my Dad LOVES it and he probably hasn't played a video game since Super Mario Bros...and that was one time and he was terrible. And I love it too and I've been playing video games since I was 4. (plus it's less than half the price of a PS3 and the games are $10 less a piece) Besides....if it's HD games you want....XBOX360 is looking better than PS3 in the games department (and it's cheaper). If it's HD movies you want....maybe you should wait a little bit.

[VanHalen2079]

I've heard that right now HD-DVD is doing better. Remember that Sony made Betamax too (which from what I hear was technically superior...I'm not quite old enough for that) and it failed. So their track record isn't good. If you want games.....if you want something new and fresh and/or something you could also play with your wife and/or kids (if you have any)...the Wii is for you. I'm 21 and my Dad LOVES it and he probably hasn't played a video game since Super Mario Bros...and that was one time and he was terrible. And I love it too and I've been playing video games since I was 4. (plus it's less than half the price of a PS3 and the games are $10 less a piece) Besides....if it's HD games you want....XBOX360 is looking better than PS3 in the games department (and it's cheaper). If it's HD movies you want....maybe you should wait a little bit.

BetaMax failed basically because Sony wouldn't license it out the way VHS was and as soon as all these other companies started coming out with VCRs and the prices dropped on them Betamax was doomed. So if Sony has any hopes of not repeating history, then they'll license out Blu-Ray to other manufacturers....or atleast drop the price on that damn PS3....Then again give me Super Mario Bros anyday.

[KRAMER5150]

I have seen Sony really trying to push this new Blu Ray technology. Will it take off and be the norm or will HD DVD get the nod.

My wife bought me a PS3 with the Blu Ray at Christmas and I have yet to even open it. I considered taking it back.

give it to me

[twonabomber]

BetaMax failed basically because Sony wouldn't license it out the way VHS was and as soon as all these other companies started coming out with VCRs and the prices dropped on them Betamax was doomed.

exactly.

Sony isn't in BluRay alone, partners include Apple, Dell, Hitachi, HP, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, TDK, and Thomson.

i'm waiting to see which format George Lucas decides to put another Star Wars reissue on. that's probably the one i'd choose.

[C5150]

HD DVD just came out with a 51 gig triple layer disc!
HD DVD will win in the end! Remember the mini disc? Sony made that also!
Sony is not out to make a great format, just one that thay can make you buy because it is in there machine, and once you buy it you have to buy the discs that go along with it!
The PSP has a umd disc, and most movie companies already quit making movies for it because they cost more than a DVD, and you can only play it on the PSP!
All you have to do in buy the movie on DVD shrink down the file to play it on the PSP via a memory stick witch is another Sony product that costs almost double the cost of an SD card! You can't use an SD card in the PSP!
See whats happening here! Sony as a company is not doing as well as they wave in the past because of this practice, It's B S if you ask me that's why I don't have a PS3! I do own every other Game system ever made just not the PS3! If they would have made it with out the Blu Ray, maybe I would have!
A lot of Blu Ray movies look lisk Shit when compaired to HD DVD of the same movie! HD DVD is Brighter, Sharper, and more vived colors!

[twonabomber]

the UMD disc is the same as a Minidisc, the case is obviously different, but the little shiny thing is the same physical size.

[Majestic]

By the year 2010, high definition televisions will still ONLY have penetrated 50% of homes.

By that time, there could.....just maybe....be some real competition from downloading movies and either storing them, or even burning them. Everyone and their mom has a TiVo or the generic DVR that comes with their cable service. The storage capacity on those things, and even the next XBox360 (120 Gig) will reach a point where people will have some serious choices to make, even if they DON'T have an HD television.

Purely speculation, of course, but it's something to think about.

The studios can align with Blu-Ray all they want, but in the end, they're coming to HD-DVD if that's the winner chosen by the consumer. Think about how your average consumer (ie., NOT US!) looks at products.

"hey there, Billy Bob, that one there says High Definition DVD, like the one we already gots, but more better, and that other one there says Blu-Ray. What the hell is that?"

I would even be willing to bet that most people who have DVD players don't even use S-Video or Component video cables. By "most", I'm talking 51%.

The winner of this race is a long way off.

[Bob_R]

As promised here's the article:


The battle of Hi-Def DVD formats


Saturday, January 13, 2007

By DEAN TAKAHASHI
SAN JOSE MERCURY NEWS


The idea of creating a home theater takes a big leap forward with the introduction of high-definition movie disc players this year. But because of a lingering war over which format the discs use, it's not worth diving into the market yet.

The simple advice is to stay on the sidelines and hope for the war to end soon so you don't run the risk of buying something that will be a dead end. But the reality is more complex than that, and you might be forced to take sides even if you really don't want to.

Until this year, buying a DVD player was simpler because DVDs came in only one format (that was not the best high-definition). But now the battle between two kinds of video discs -- Blu-ray and HD-DVD -- is just like the early days of the VCR, with the VHS-Betamax war. If you're buying a PlayStation 3, you're already voting for Blu-ray because that's what the PS3 plays. If you're buying a Toshiba laptop, you're likely going to be voting for HD-DVD, though Toshiba has models with regular DVDs.

And nobody knows yet which format is likely to prevail and become widespread.

The makers of the next-generation successor to the DVD couldn't agree on a common format, and that is creating a dilemma for consumers. Toshiba and its allies created the HD-DVD player, while Sony and its friends backed Blu-ray.

Both take advantage of blue lasers, which can be used to create discs that can store much more data than DVDs. The blue lasers can record more data because they can be focused more finely than the red lasers used in DVD players.

Blu-ray discs store as much as 50 gigabytes, while HD-DVD discs store as much as 30. In the future, the Blu-ray number might grow to 200, while the HD-DVD number could possibly cap at 45 gigabytes. DVDs typically store 4.7 gigabytes or 8.5 gigabytes.

There are more hotly debated details that have to do with quality. Over time, I expect the movie-quality debate to equalize to a tie. The discs for the new machines range from $19 to $40, though some are being discounted.

Both of the newer discs are much more interactive than DVDs. For example, you can see videos, such as a director's comments, running in small windows at the same time you're watching a movie. The studios can create little games, such as targeting bad guys in a movie with a remote control. You can bookmark a scene that you want to come back to, and you can search through the movie for scenes tagged with keywords, such as "falling scene."

The HD-DVD players are more closely tied to the original DVD technology. You can take a new hybrid disc (HD-DVD on one side, DVD on the other) and play it in an old DVD player. You can't do that with Blu-ray. But you can put the older DVDs into a Blu-ray machine. Hence, if you have a library of older DVDs, you can keep them and play them with the new players on either side.

Do you want HD movies? On bigger sets, yes. On smaller screens, I think regular DVDs look pretty good. I watched HD-DVD movies on a Toshiba Qosmio G-35 AV650 ($2,499) with a 17-inch screen. I also looked at Blu-ray on an upcoming Dell laptop. With the small screen sizes, the picture looks nice but not good enough to be a big deal. The real reason to get a writeable next-generation HD player on a laptop is for easy archiving of your hard-drive data.

The HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs have enough capacity to store full HD movies, and they display the movies in the best format, 1080p, meaning there are 1,080 lines of vertical resolution in every picture frame. That's enough detail to see the pores on an actor's face in a close-up.

The larger the screen, the more you will appreciate movies in the 1080p format. But it's worth noting that many TVs on the market at reasonable prices display movies only in 720p resolution, which isn't as good.

Narrowing gap

HD-DVD players debuted at $499 in April from Toshiba, while the first Blu-ray machine came out from Samsung in June at $1,000. The price gap is closing, and the PlayStation 3 is a big boost for Blu-ray.

If you have an Xbox 360 game console, you can get an add-on HD-DVD movie player for $199. HD-DVD evangelist Kevin Collins at Microsoft says the numbers show HD-DVD had more momentum in the recent holiday season (with more than 1.5 million movies shipped), but that might not matter much in the long run as Blu-ray momentum grows with PlayStation 3 sales.

With HD-DVD, you're expected to be able to make a personal copy of your discs.

Also, the anti-piracy provisions are worth paying attention to. If you're interested in that, do an Internet search on HDCP, or high-bandwidth digital copy protection, to get an explanation of why this prevents you from playing unauthorized discs, among other things.

For now, there are more than 100 movie discs out for each format. In the long run, HD-DVD faces big problems. It stores less data, and only three of eight major studios have agreed to release movies on it. Blu-ray stores more data, and seven of eight studios support it.

Suggested retail prices for Blu-ray players listed at blu-raydisc .com/products/Section-13624/In dex.html are $750 to $1,500. But the cheaper way to get Blu-ray is to buy a $500 or $600 PlayStation 3. With a big PS 3 shortage, that's easier said than done.

The way for this war to end is through either one side winning, which isn't yet a certainty, or the creation of combination players that can play both kinds of discs.

But there are skeptics. "The idea of a combo player is a false hope," says Brian Zucker, technology strategist at Dell, a big supporter of Blu-ray.

It won't be hard to come up with video chips that can process both Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats, but the combo players might have to use two different optical block assemblies, or multiple drives, making them expensive, says Stan Glasgow, head of Sony Electronics in the United States. Only VidaBox (vidabox.com) has announced a combo machine -- in the ballpark of $6,000.

As for me, I'll wait. I'm hoping not to get stuck with the Betamax of this generation.

* * *

About HD-DVD

HD-DVD is a new generation of discs and players that store and run digital data, including videos.

# Features: 30 gigabytes on two layers; uses HDi technology from Microsoft for interactivity; more audio capability than DVDs.

# Titles: 125

# Pros: Compatible with standard DVDs where HD-DVDs can play on DVD players; cheaper price at $500 per player; HD-DVD for Xbox 360 inexpensive at $199; some HD-DVD discs can play in older DVD players.

# Cons: Smaller disc capacity; fewer supporters among studios and consumer electronics companies.

# Supporters: Toshiba, Microsoft, Intel, Toshiba, Sanyo, NEC.

# PCs that run HD-DVD: HP, Toshiba, Acer.

# Major studio supporters: Universal, Paramount and Warner Bros.

* * *

About Blu-ray

Blu-ray refers to a new generation of discs and players that store and run digital data, including videos.

# Features: Discs have 50 gigabytes on two layers; plays video at 1080p, six times as much picture detail as a regular DVD; uses Java programming for interactivity.

# Titles: 107

# Pros: Larger disc capacity with potential to grow; Blu-ray players can accommodate older DVDs; included in every PlayStation 3; Blu-ray burners available.

# Cons: Player prices are higher for now; Blu-ray discs cannot play on older DVD players.

# Supporters: Sony, Apple, Dell, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Sharp, Hitachi, Samsung, Mitsubishi, LG, Thomson, NEC.

# PCs that run Blu-ray: Sony Vaio desktops and notebooks, Dell computers, HP.

# Major studio supporters: Sony Pictures, 20th Century Fox, MGM, Warner Home Video, Buena Vista Entertainment (Disney), Lions Gate Entertainment.

[Fan4Life]

PS3 was a bust, Sony went on touting over 1 million units shipped, yet sales today are not even at 500,000. They made a huge mistake pricing it so high and there have a ton of articles about retailers now that can't move stock. The XBOX and Wii are killing it right now. Samsung has HD DVD laptops coming out, as well there are more and more sites popping up where you can order titles from Blue Ray supporters on HD DVD. I thing this war will go on for a few years at least, Toshiba has the best player on the market in the AX 2, and the Blue Ray camp will HAVE to bring hardware prices down drastically in the future.

[Axxman300]

Short Answer: HDTV

Why: It's what the porn guys are using.

Long Answer with Link:

Do you remember VHS? How about Betamax? Both were video tape formats in the early 1980s. Betamax was superior in every way: picture and sound quality. However, SONY forbid the Betamax production houses, the places that dubbed stuff onto Betamax cassettes for sale, against them making pornography. So the Adult Film industry went to VHS, which wasn't as good as Beta but did the job just fine.

VHS got the porn, then VHS players started flying of the shelves. By 1985, Betamax was a novelty and movie companies stopped making Betamax versions because the weren't selling enough to justify production costs.

The irony being that in their anti-porn zeal, SONY fucked themselves.

So, do you think SONY learned their lesson? Evidently not:

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/dat...ex.html#672773

Moral of the story:

So goes Porn, so goes technology to get porn.

[twonabomber]

that's not completely true.

we had a Beta machine, and i bought/rented plenty of porn.

[Majestic]

Storage capacity really isn't an issue.

It's never been an issue back when people had 2 or 3 disks for their PS1 or PS2, in fact, very few people played those titles anyway. It's the generic "Joe Six Pack" that sets the market, and Joe Six Pack wasn't playing Bushido Blade (or whatever it was) on his PS1.

HD-DVD has the superior picture quality, and a more recognizable name. If I had to pick between the two *I* would own, it would be HD-DVD.

That doesn't mean I'm picking them to "win". Like I said, it's going to be 3 years before people are even buying these players, and many more years before any so-called "format war" is decided. Unlike video tape, this is a product that nobody wants.

Sure, you, your 10 friends, and your relatives own HD television sets, and HD televisions are 95% of what is offered at big box outlets, but 90% of America aren't upgrading their TVs this year. Or next year. Or in 2009. That's just a fact. And I know what an "early adopter" looks like.....my dad was a Beta-tester for Comcast half a decade ago with his 62" inch television and Comcast's HD cable box.

It's really an unnecessary product right now. The early-adopters *just* got done buying their favorite movies on DVD, and are watching them on their new HD TV set. They're not ready to spend another $1000 to buy their favorite movies over again on any particular HD format, not when they have hundreds upon hundreds of HD movies available on their cable box that they can store on their generic DVR and watch at their leisure.

[Axxman300]

I'm not budgeted to buy a wide screen HDTV until this fall and I'm not hot on re-buying all of the same DVDs I just bought to replace my VHS.

Then you have the Specter of "Convergence", where TV, Internet and Cellphone are inter-linked into a single system. I don't know how many use pay-per-view for movies but the idea is that you can be sitting at home and get the urge to watch "Caddyshack", so you log onto a movie-on-demand website, select the movie and your TV provider and click...you're watching "Caddyshack". If you have all of the HD-TV stuff in your package then you watch it in Hi-Def.

I don't pretend to know where that is going to end up.