This is my opinion

[Thai Boxer 9901]

Like I said, this is my opinon on this particular matter. If you agree with it, great. If not, thats your business

Anyways, I just watched the news and saw that Bush is sending in 20,000 more troops into Iraq. Heres my personal views on this. AGAIN, if you like what I have to say, great. If not, thats ok too.

1. Bush is a DIPSHIT. If he thinks that sending in 20,000 more troops into iraq will help win the war, then he is a bigger retard than people think he is.

2. Bush did not discuss this with congress, the senate or the house of reps. Obviously, the Democrats are pissed and I believe that a big majority of the US population is also pissed.

3. Iraq should be Iraqs problem. We went in there to find Osama Bin Ladden. That didnt happen. We then went in to find W'sMD. Mission un-fuckin-accomplished. We then set our sights on capturing hussein which I believe is the only thing we have done right but I also believe that bush jr. is making up for what his dad SHOULD have done when he had the chance.

4. Bush only cares about one thing, going down in history as the guy who liberated iraq. Sure, we got hussein but what else have we done besides that? Hes so worried that this whole war is going to back-fire on him that he is willing to send more troops over to make up for his mistakes.

5. I remember reading or hearing from some source last year from a retired Vietnam vet who was all for the war in vietnam. When he gave an interview last year, he said that this war is Vietnam pt.2 and also that he strongly urged to bring all of the troops home because it wasnt worth it. I for one believe him because we went into iraq with good intentions but after that, we just got our asses handed to us.

6. Bush should have realized by now that the american people want a way out of iraq, not a a new way in thats gunna get fucked up again.

And just for the record, I am in no way bashing the troops. I support and respect every single man and woman in uniform 100% and I wish all of them the very best luck and hope they come home soon and safe.

Ok, im done ranting. After watching the news, I just got all fired up about it but now I feel better. AGAIN, If you like what I have to say, great. If not, thats your own business and I respect that. Mods, if you feel that this thread is useless, or isnt going anywhere, please feel free to close it. The last thing I would want is to start a shit storm about this whole thing. This was just my way of expressing my feelings towards it and if you do close it, I completley understand.

[willy4pres]

Here's the deal.

1. 20,000 more people cant hurt.

2. If Congress rolls over and allows this to happen they then, by definition, agree with the plan. They can complain about it later but it still takes some heat off the administration.

3. If Congress grabs some nuts and shuts it all down then the Bush Administration can point a lot of the blame in their direction once Iraq falls apart.

4. KEEPING troops in the middle of the REAL shitholes instead of just letting them roll through will equal more dead Americans, get ready for that.

5. BUT, if done correctly it can also spell the end of all this nonsense. This is the real problem, were not actively killing enough people.

6. In the end none of this will matter. The middle east has lots of great murderers but real soldiers are hard to come by. The people of Iraq are only good at killing people that can't fight back (same goes for the rest of the area). The entire region is comprised solely of nasty disgusting people that should still be living like most of Africa. If it wasn't for oil their wars would only involve rocks, spears, and soiled pants. Two hundred years from now people will wonder why we didn't just throw a fence around the entire place and stick up a bunch of cameras, just make it into one big television program.

[Rocket]

The generals have already spoken:

1) We should have started this war with at least 300,000 troops.

2) We should not have disbanded the Iraqi army, which Rumsfeld insisted on doing rather than pay their measly salary amounting to $150 million per year.

Because of thoses two reasons we can not solve this war militarily. These 20K troops are just more sitting ducks unfortunately.

Read Bob Woodward's new book; he was there and he put it all down in writing.

[smithjc]

Yeah losing more kids won't hurt.

Bush (how much is this many?) is an idiot.

[jimmy812]

We should have went to Afghanistan in the first place!! Iraq would have been better off with Saddam still in power.

[weesfreewheelin]

And just for the record, I am in no way bashing the troops. I support and respect every single man and woman in uniform 100% and I wish all of them the very best luck and hope they come home soon and safe..

Since the UPS thingy didn't work out, maybe you could visit the local armed forces recruiting office and sincerely support the troops.

[LoveWalkinIn]

First of all, we did not go into Iraq to find Osama Bin Laden...The fact that you even said that is beyond belief. The entrance into Iraq was completed based upon the US and UN belief that Saddam Hussein was in possession of chemical weapons and posed a threat to the world and specifically the US.

Second, and more important, withdrawing troops from Iraq is a terrible idea. I'm a diehard republican and support the president, but I completely agree that the war was a terrible mistake. That said, you can't just pick up and leave at the point and to even think that would mean your head is clear up your ass. We dug ourselves quite a hole, and leaving at this point would cause complete havoc in the middle east, considering that the new Iraqi gov't is by no means yet capable of handling the impending civil war between the Sunni and Shiite. The president understands that we need to get out, but it's not as simple as just packing up and leaving these people to murder each other. Common theory is that if we were to make that mistake, it could in turn lead to a terrible chain reaction regarding Iran and nuclear weapons.

[Scotty]

Iraq would have been better off with Saddam still in power.

Gah!

:bitestongue:

[jimmy812]

We dug ourselves quite a hole, and leaving at this point would cause complete havoc in the middle east

Yeah, cuz it's so peaceful there now.
It wouldn't "cause" complete havoc, it would add to the havoc that's there already. The Middle East is a mess and it always will be. There's been conflict there for centuries, and the dumbest president we've ever had marches into Iraq under false pretenses and now thinks he can create democracy there.

[Thai Boxer 9901]

Since the UPS thingy didn't work out, maybe you could visit the local armed forces recruiting office and sincerely support the troops.

Ive already tried that. None of the branches will take me because of my medical history. My asthma they told me was the main thing that was holding me back because its a liability. I have 2 friends both in the armed forces (1 army, 1 marine) and they both told me that my asthma would slow me down and kick my ass and they suggested that I dont go.

[LLFHS]

Bush has fucked us into a corner that we'll be backing out of for years, possibly decades. It's no secret that Iraq was a move of vengeance disguised as a hunt for justice post-911. okay....we're going after WMD's.....um, now we're going after Saddam.....um, this is a war on TERROR.

Most of the US, and many Republicans, now realize this - and the time has come to get this primate out of office. Literally EVERYONE has abandoned the current administration. Powell, Rummy......Tony Snow's prececessor (can't remember the guy's name). How many more clues are needed??

It's not too late to save the face of American decency. We were NOT attacked by a countryon 911. We were attacked by a rogue group....we should be looking for them rather than a reason to fight in Iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FIGHT THE FUCKING POWER!!!!!!!!!!

[vistadelrey]

here's my opinion...

this war has been difficult. but the majority will never realise the monumental task accomplished over there. again there is a price. It's so easy to criticize him now but just imagine some crazy fucker in control of that oil. over the last twenty some odd years and prior to we have prevented a disaster by going toe to toe with those very crazy wanna be rulers. these are very unstable nations and have always been. no one should be suprised anyhow. it's all written. we've got to fullfill the book.

[jimmy812]

The point I'm making is that there was no need to go into Iraq. There were no WMD's just a bunch of radical shiitheads.
Sure Saddam was a bad man and needed to die. But do you know how many men around the world are bad like he was? Does that mean that we are going to go into every country and root them out?
After 9/11, I, like the rest of the US wanted to go to war, but we wanted to go after Osama in Afghanistan. There was no need to go in Iraq.
Like LowLife said, the president screwed up and now everyone around him has come to their senses and realized it along with the majority of citizens he 'leads.'
It's a shame that we're losing the lives of so many good troops over this stupid fiasco.

[Dr5115]

I think WMD's were a reason to go into Iraq. However, there is a bigger picture to this.

This is a VERY unstable part of the world. The hope (I think) is to help stabilize this part of the world so shitheads like Bin Laden and Hussein can't come into power anymore.

Next, look at Iran and their Nuclear program. If the Iranians don't stop this (and they won't) the Israelis will probably attack Iran. BIG TROUBLE

Any country in the Middle east that gets a nuke can and probably will hold the rest of the mid east hostage and will contol the worlds oil supply..BIGGER TROUBLE global economy crashes.........fun stuff

Just my opinion that the US is trying to prevent future problems from arising in the giant sand box known as the middle east.

[Axxman300]

1. Bush is a DIPSHIT. If he thinks that sending in 20,000 more troops into iraq will help win the war, then he is a bigger retard than people think he is.

You know what? Bush is a dipshit. But Robert Gates is not, he talked Bush out of a much larger increase because...wait for it... we didn't need a larger force to pull off a new phase.

New Phase?

Yep, what the news isn't telling you is that since January started we've begun targeting insurgent areas hard. We weren't doing this consistantly under Rumsfeld, hence the disaster so far. Almost every day, six B-1Bs have been in the air over Iraq and each day they return with empty bombays. That means some serious shit is going down.

Anyway, 21,000 men is**gasp** 2 divisions. Ooooooh.

2. Bush did not discuss this with congress, the senate or the house of reps. Obviously, the Democrats are pissed and I believe that a big majority of the US population is also pissed.

He doesn't have to get approval from Congress.

4. Bush only cares about one thing, going down in history as the guy who liberated iraq. Sure, we got hussein but what else have we done besides that? Hes so worried that this whole war is going to back-fire on him that he is willing to send more troops over to make up for his mistakes.

That implies that Bush has read a history book some time in his life, I'd be suprised if he's read anything other than baseball history. He knows he's made a mess, at this point he's just trying to clean it up. I understand that this is an alien concept for Democrats and leftists, who's trademark is walking away from their own disasters and letting others clean up their mess.

5. I remember reading or hearing from some source last year from a retired Vietnam vet who was all for the war in vietnam. When he gave an interview last year, he said that this war is Vietnam pt.2 and also that he strongly urged to bring all of the troops home because it wasnt worth it. I for one believe him because we went into iraq with good intentions but after that, we just got our asses handed to us.

Vietnam, Vietnam, Vietnam...blah, blah,blah. Guess what? This war is technically worse than Vietnam. In Vietnam you had to go out into the countryside and find the enemy, in Iraq they're shooting at you as you land at the airport, as you drive the highway to the FOB, at the FOB and then on every other patrol.

Guess what?

In Vietnam, we were loosing 200 guys a week, OR MORE, after four years we had lost over 25,000 men. In four years in Iraq we have had 3000 KIA and another 10,000 wounded (most of those can't wait to GO BACK TO IRAQ). So what does that tell about the guys who fought in Vietnam vs the ones who are in Iraq?

2) We should not have disbanded the Iraqi army, which Rumsfeld insisted on doing rather than pay their measly salary amounting to $150 million per year

We never DISBANDED the Iraqi Army, it disintergated as we advanced. Most of them were Shiite and Kurdish conscripts who were kept in their uniforms under threat of death (them and their families). You have bought a lie that has been spread by people who know better.

The only force that might have been able to help was the Republican Guard, the problem was that we killed most of them and the rest stripped off their uniforms and went to hide with the civilian population.

By the time we took Bagdhad, there was no Iraqi Army.

A better informed person would say that we shouldn't have outlawed the Baath party, that was the big mistake. Know your facts.

We should have went to Afghanistan in the first place!! Iraq would have been better off with Saddam still in power.
01.11.07 08:54 AM

What makes you think Saddam wouldn't have formed an alliance with Iran? He was working with Iran to help Hezbollah and Hamas. We still had fighters over Iraq every day and troops in Kuwait and Carrier battle groups in the gulf.
Saddam deserved what he got. Also, we did go into Afghanistan and we are STILL in Afghanistan.

The point I'm making is that there was no need to go into Iraq. There were no WMD's just a bunch of radical shiitheads.
Sure Saddam was a bad man and needed to die. But do you know how many men around the world are bad like he was? Does that mean that we are going to go into every country and root them out?
After 9/11, I, like the rest of the US wanted to go to war, but we wanted to go after Osama in Afghanistan. There was no need to go in Iraq.
Like LowLife said, the president screwed up and now everyone around him has come to their senses and realized it along with the majority of citizens he 'leads.'
It's a shame that we're losing the lives of so many good troops over this stupid fiasco.

The fact is this, we were going to go into Iraq, everyone one knew it. They knew it back in 1991, they knew it when Clinton bombed Iraq in 1997 and they knew Bush was looking for any excuse to go and get Saddam the first chance he got. By "They" I mean us, the American people. The same people who were often overheard saying " Why don't we just go in an kick Saddam's ass?" every time they shot at our planes patrolling the No-Fly Zone.

I just didn't think he'd fuck it up.

I supported this war because I figured that the reason we were going in light was because there was some Iraqi- Resistance movement that we were going to link up with and stablize the country with later. Man, was I wrong, you can't go to war and be an optomist. Someone mentioned Bob Woodward, in one of his prior books he points out the key moment of this mess. He tells the story of George Tennent giving Bush the briefing in the Oval Office on why we should invade Iraq. After the DCIA finished the briefing, Bush looked at him and said " It that it? It that all you have? That will never fly!", to which Tennent assured Bush that WMDs were a slam-dunk. I joke about Bush not being smart, but at that moment he should have trusted is instincts and held off.

Saddam was going to screw up eventually and when he did, THAT would have been the time to strike. Then you'd have international support.

Look, you don't have to support the war, just get your facts straight.