Gunmen Attack National Guard Border Patrol Site in Arizona
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  1. #1
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    Default Gunmen Attack National Guard Border Patrol Site in Arizona

    TUCSON, Ariz. — National Guard troops working at an observatory post near the Mexican border were forced to flee after being approached by a group of armed individuals, authorities said.

    The event occurred about 11 p.m. Wednesday at one of the National Guard entrance identification team posts near Sasabe, said National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban.

    He said the troops withdrew safely, no shots were fired and no one suffered injuries.

    U.S. Border Patrol officials are investigating the incident and trying to determine who the armed people were, what they were doing and why they approached the post before retreating to Mexico.

    The incident occurred in the west desert corridor between Nogales and Lukeville in the vicinity of Sasabe, Balaban said.

    "We don't know exactly how many because obviously it took place in the dark," Balaban said. "Nobody was able to get an accurate count."

    The Guard troops are not allowed to apprehend illegal entrants.

    "We don't know if this was a matter of somebody coming up accidentally on the individuals, coming up intentionally on the individuals, or some sort of a diversion," said Rob Daniels, spokesman for the Border Patrol's Tucson Sector.

    The west desert corridor has been the busiest in the Tucson Sector for marijuana seizures since last year.

    Agents have seized 124,000 pounds of marijuana there since Oct. 1, Daniels said.

    With more Border Patrol agents and National Guard troops patrolling the Arizona section of the U.S.-Mexican border, it has become more difficult to smuggle drugs and people across and "that heightened frustration may have been connected to what took place last night," Daniels said.

    Officials will make a decision following the investigation about whether changes need to be made in regard to the entrance identification teams, Balaban said.

    Since arriving in mid-June, the Guard has assisted the Border Patrol by manning control rooms, doing vehicle and helicopter maintenance, repairing roads and fences, constructing vehicle barriers and fences and spotting and reporting illegal entrants in entrance identification teams.

    There are dozens of National Guard entrance identification teams along the Mexican border, including east and west of both Nogales and Sasabe and on the Tohono O'odham Nation.

    The troops stand post on hilltops next to army-green tents and serve as extra eyes and ears for the Border Patrol.
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  2. #2
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    yeah. our borders are safe.
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  3. #3
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    Hey, they were only attacking National Guard outposts that Americans don't want to attack.
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    Currently there is a semi-secret "war" going on between three different drug cartels in our area (this includes the area mentioned in the story). Basically, we have had two drug families operating here for the last 20 years, lately a new more violant one has shown up in an attempt to take over the area (it's working). These new guys employ profetional soldiers to do their dirty work, they get payed a few extra bucks if they can kill border patrol agents (I guess the border patrol guys are the ones they worry most about). I think that part is probably bullshit, if it were true we would have Border Patrol guys dropping like fly's. It makes more sense that these guys want to bully the agents a bit so that they stay off their backs, but at the same time not make a bunch of noise doing it so that the rest of America get's all up in arms.

    We used to get briefed on this stuff when I was still in the Marine Corps, just a safety/watch your ass brief. Now that I work out at the aerostat site it get's talked about in a little more detail. I think the US Government would like to keep all this under the radar as much as possible.

    I would like to see us use Marines to stand watch at our border, these dudes think their badass. I bet if we slaughtered a few dozen of their buddies they would think different.
    Last edited by willy4pres; 01.05.07 at 08:32 PM.

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    Whoa.

    Too much is missing from this report.

    First off, our troops were "forced to flee"? What does that mean? What are the rules of engagement here? Can we not command in Spanish to halt, and if it doesn't happen, open fire? Not to be paranoid, but instead of weed, what if these guys were bringing a dirty bomb across the border?

    Speaking of weed - 124,000 pounds since Oct.? Holy shit. How much didn't we intercept? That's a lot of dope. Maybe reason enough to post full military patrols along the border.

    Then: "We don't know exactly how many because obviously it took place in the dark," Balaban said. "Nobody was able to get an accurate count."

    WTF? Do we not supply these guys with night vision technology? Are we targets down there?

    Christ. The mind boggles.

    Pleasant dreams, everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by te5150 View Post
    Whoa.

    Too much is missing from this report.

    First off, our troops were "forced to flee"? What does that mean? What are the rules of engagement here? Can we not command in Spanish to halt, and if it doesn't happen, open fire? Not to be paranoid, but instead of weed, what if these guys were bringing a dirty bomb across the border?

    Speaking of weed - 124,000 pounds since Oct.? Holy shit. How much didn't we intercept? That's a lot of dope. Maybe reason enough to post full military patrols along the border.

    Then: "We don't know exactly how many because obviously it took place in the dark," Balaban said. "Nobody was able to get an accurate count."

    WTF? Do we not supply these guys with night vision technology? Are we targets down there?

    Christ. The mind boggles.

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    Everyone freaked when that happened. Lot's of people talk tough concerning border enforcement yet once the bullets fly and the bodies fall they quickly change their tune. I don't believe terrorists would enter through the southern border when they could get in using the northern border (it's still much easier). They might do it just to make the US more paranoid, it seems it's the only border most Americans are concerned with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willy4pres View Post
    http://www.ndsn.org/mayjun98/hernandez.html

    Everyone freaked when that happened. Lot's of people talk tough concerning border enforcement yet once the bullets fly and the bodies fall they quickly change their tune. I don't believe terrorists would enter through the southern border when they could get in using the northern border (it's still much easier). They might do it just to make the US more paranoid, it seems it's the only border most Americans are concerned with.
    I'd forgotten about that case. Man. Poor kid.

    I still would like to know the Guards' rules of engagement, though. Seems "forced to flee" is the wrong message to send to groups brazen enough to approach uniformed military - especially armed.

    As terrorism is concerned, ports and our northern border would seem much easier entry points, but this still has me concerned.

  8. #8
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    The Guard troops s/b able to apprehend illegals. This whole thing stinks.
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    What we should be reading is this:

    "A bunch of armed men approached a National Guard checkpoint, a firefight resulted causing the death of all the armed men. Motives behind the event are not known because all the "bad guys" are dead."

    Seriously, it might have been for the best that the National Guard people got the hell out of there. These new guys are the real deal. They know how to fire and manuever, none of this spray and pray stuff like they pull in Iraq. Odd's are some of the National Guard guys would have been killed. I don't think Bush wants us fighting "evil" inside America's border.

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    Quote Originally Posted by te5150 View Post
    First off, our troops were "forced to flee"? What does that mean? What are the rules of engagement here? Can we not command in Spanish to halt, and if it doesn't happen, open fire?
    The Guard troops aren't even armed. They have to rely on Border Patrol agents who may or may not be in the area. Politics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwood P. View Post
    The Guard troops aren't even armed. They have to rely on Border Patrol agents who may or may not be in the area. Politics.
    It's not politics, it's the law. Border Patrol are considered law enforcement, or essentially police. National Guard is military, and under Posse Commitatus law, (yeah I probably spelled that wrong) the military cannot be used for domestic law enforcement purposes. Which is why it was stupid of Chimpy to send the Guard there in the first place, when hiring more Border Patrol personnel would have been far more appropriate.

    I just want to know who the hell is smoking 120,000 pounds of Mexican Dirt Weed. I thought all the good weed was coming across the other border these days
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    just want to know who the hell is smoking 120,000 pounds of Mexican Dirt Weed. I thought all the good weed was coming across the other border these days
    The best weed is grown in Big Sur, California....so I'm told. Buy American, it's too late for 60 year old hippies to start looking for a real job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    It's not politics, it's the law. Border Patrol are considered law enforcement, or essentially police. National Guard is military, and under Posse Commitatus law, (yeah I probably spelled that wrong) the military cannot be used for domestic law enforcement purposes. Which is why it was stupid of Chimpy to send the Guard there in the first place, when hiring more Border Patrol personnel would have been far more appropriate.
    No it's politics. Posse Comitatus is not at issue here. If you check out the above post/link by Willy4pres, that incident occurred near Redford, Texas when (armed) Marines based out of Camp Pendleton shot a local kid. Not going to get into the specifics (it was a hell of a shot), but the Marines were involved in a drug/intel ops. They were well-armed, operating alone. Here in So. Cal, California Nat'l Guard have done lots of drug ops in the past where they been well-armed.

    The difference here is Bush and co. didn't want to appear to "militarize" the Border by sending armed Nat'l Guard units. Mexicans are very jumpy when that subject comes up. (The fact that the Mexicans militarize their side of the Border is irrelevant) Bush didn't want to offend his buddy Fox, I suppose, who was in office when this deal came together.

    Guard units are not only not armed, they are under orders not to make any contact with any illegal or suspected illegals. They are only supposed to serve as eyes for the Border Patrol units. It's stupid. Lots of these guys have done tours in Iraq/Afghanistan but they can't even be issued a shotgun or 9 mm pistol for self-defense here. Self-defense is all I'm talking about, not even active enforcement.

    Supposedly the Guard is here only until more Border Patrol hires come on line which can take several months.
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