Eddie's sound on "up for breakfast" and "it's about time".

[mickbass]

Eddie's guitar has quite a different sound on those songs.Anyone knows if he played it through his usual stuff?

[TheArchitect]

sounded like Soldano amps to me

[cav]

I don't know what he was using, but I really didn't dig it.
It's great that he tries different sounds etc, but when you
have the distinction of creating a unique trade mark sound,
it's hard to break away. For him, being Eddie must sometimes
feel like having an 800lb gorilla on his back. The expectations
must be ridiculous. With that said, I just didn't like the tone/sound
on those tunes...

Imagine AC/DC breaking away from their signature sound
or the Stones (you get my point)
Change is good, but it doesn't mean we have to like it...

[mickbass]

It is true that his tone was strange, maybe a little loud in the final mix.

[Berseker]

In the August '04 issue of Guitar World he said he used Wolfgangs and a Peavey II.

[scs5150]

He said that he didn't "compress" the songs either. THey do that a lot for radio play.

[bsm40]

He said that he didn't "compress" the songs either. THey do that a lot for radio play.

Listen to VHII album ( not the remix version ). Tone sounds very familiar. Not heavily compressed and EQ is very 80's.

Modern day mixing is very compressed and is over EQed. It's too hot and there are "no" dynamics. I don't like it.

EVH's guitar style has a lot of dynamics that I could not hear in the in 5150, OU812, FUCK, and Balance. I still love these albums, but what turned me on to VH was the sound dynamics on the first 6 albums.

[AT]

Listen to VHII album ( not the remix version ). Tone sounds very familiar. Not heavily compressed and EQ is very 80's.

Modern day mixing is very compressed and is over EQed. It's too hot and there are "no" dynamics. I don't like it.

EVH's guitar style has a lot of dynamics that I could not hear in the in 5150, OU812, FUCK, and Balance. I still love these albums, but what turned me on to VH was the sound dynamics on the first 6 albums.

Yes, correct. There's entirely too much compression in both the recording and mastering (especially mastering) stages of the process now. And EQs are pushed to the point of distortion. I have yet to understand how that sounds good to anyone, but from what I understand it's more record company big-wigs having say over what engineers would prefer. They've turned popular music into Domino's Pizza. Hopefully there will be a revolt soon.

Regarding the three BOBW songs, "It's About Time" was mixed at a different time than the other two, and Eddie had a lot to do with it. He claimed to not do any kind of EQing when he mixed--just set levels where he wanted them. His tone was definitely heavier, similar to the beginning of "Learning To See." I thought "Up For Breakfast" was the closest thing we'd heard to Ed's "classic" tone in a while.

And, yeah, he did say in an interview that 95% of the tracks were a Wolfgang and 5150 (I or II) amp. I own both and can accomplish a tone similar to the BOBW tunes very easily.

[Warmoth]

Definately the setup was a Wolfgang and a 5150. I never was a big fan of the tone of the 5150. Good amp to blend with a Marshall but not as a stand alone amp IMHO. I have a 5150 and a wolfgang and it sounds just like Eddie's recorded tone. Truthfully I think Eddies tone would sound better is the bass and drums complimented his sound better. The bass tone on VHIII and BOBW was crap. A kick ass bass tone is required in order for recorded guitar to sound great and that's not been happening lately. Also .... I ASOLUTELY dig Alex and his playing but god bless him.... since FUCK his recorded drum sound has gotten worse. It's like it is too dry and natural ... I think he likes that real natural old school sound.... but damn, I just don't think it's jiving with the crappy bass tone and Eddie's hot rodded high gain 5150 II. BOBW sounds like they put a cheasey on the kick and as an over head and rolled with it.

[AT]

Definately the setup was a Wolfgang and a 5150. I never was a big fan of the tone of the 5150. Good amp to blend with a Marshall but not as a stand alone amp IMHO. I have a 5150 and a wolfgang and it sounds just like Eddie's recorded tone. Truthfully I think Eddies tone would sound better is the bass and drums complimented his sound better. The bass tone on VHIII and BOBW was crap. A kick ass bass tone is required in order for recorded guitar to sound great and that's not been happening lately. Also .... I ASOLUTELY dig Alex and his playing but god bless him.... since FUCK his recorded drum sound has gotten worse. It's like it is too dry and natural ... I think he likes that real natural old school sound.... but damn, I just don't think it's jiving with the crappy bass tone and Eddie's hot rodded high gain 5150 II. BOBW sounds like they put a cheasey on the kick and as an over head and rolled with it.

I didn't mind Alex's drum sounds on Balance, though there were some engineering flaws with some of the overhead and/or cymbal mics (gates closing in choppy ways). Overall I liked the "in-your-face" quality of the sounds on Balance, but the mixes were pretty inconsistent from one to the next.

YES, in a big way, the bass tone since III has been terrible. It lacks a certain roundness in the low-mids--kind of a classic Ampeg SVT tone like what they did well for MA on FUCK and Balance. It's almost like Eddie's bass tone is carved out in those frequencies, then he plays the bass like a guitar--overplaying and paralleling his guitar parts too much.

Also, listen to "It's About Time" again. Eddie's main guitar part is doubled, and each track is so precise to the other, it makes you wonder how long he had to sit there and play by himself in the studio to match them so well. That's a way overcooked part--absolutely nothing like the inspired jam-with-the-band-live-in-the-studio Ed we knew in most other capacities. I love the part a lot, but it would've been cooler overall to heat those tunes performed together as a band.

[Warmoth]

I agree that Balance was produced well. Bruce Fairbairn was a really good producer. I think the sound was a little too glossy for VH but still it was a fine job of priduction. The drum sound was very good, but still a down slide when compared to F.U.C.K. ... those were the best drum sounds ever for VH. Then I would say 1984 had the best drum sounds after F.U.C.K. .... damn I still air jam the drums in Girl Gone Bad and I can't even play drums. HAHA.

Glad to hear I am not alone with the bass tone opinion. Andrew, you are dead on. Eddie plays guitar like bass ... too much parallel movement. I play bass on most of my guitar instrumental tracks and over the years have tried to develop my skills so that I compliment the drums and give the song movement. I draw a lot of inspriration from a lot of old McCartney parts. There's so much to learn from those Beatles and Wings songs. McCartney had a keen sense of theory, counterpoint, bass movement and song arrangement.

If you have a great bass line it just makes those guitar parts (and drums) just dance and sing together.

[AT]

I agree that Balance was produced well. Bruce Fairbairn was a really good producer. I think the sound was a little too glossy for VH but still it was a fine job of priduction. The drum sound was very good, but still a down slide when compared to F.U.C.K. ... those were the best drum sounds ever for VH. Then I would say 1984 had the best drum sounds after F.U.C.K. .... damn I still air jam the drums in Girl Gone Bad and I can't even play drums. HAHA.

Glad to hear I am not alone with the bass tone opinion. Andrew, you are dead on. Eddie plays guitar like bass ... too much parallel movement. I play bass on most of my guitar instrumental tracks and over the years have tried to develop my skills so that I compliment the drums and give the song movement. I draw a lot of inspriration from a lot of old McCartney parts. There's so much to learn from those Beatles and Wings songs. McCartney had a keen sense of theory, counterpoint, bass movement and song arrangement.

If you have a great bass line it just makes those guitar parts (and drums) just dance and sing together.

There's two things about the production of Balance that bother me. 1) The mixes bother me. Sammy's way upfront on some of the tunes, then he's buried in others ("Aftershock"). And I mentioned the closing gates on cymbals earlier; you can hear the same thing on Sam's lead vocal tracks during the last quiet verse of "Not Enough." If I'm mixing a tune and having something liek that happen, it gets fixed. Mike Fraser must have been mixing the album at a low volume. 2) The lack of signature VH background vocals in spots that could have used it. Every time I listen through the album all the way, I hear places that scream out to me for added random bits of VH background vocals (during verses, bridges, etc.) that would've given an overall boost to the vocal production on the record. I thought Ted Templeman did a very fine job of that kind of thing on the FUCK album.

Alex was playing the roto toms on 1984, and I always thought he sounded amazing with them. He used them again for "Humans Being," and again the first time I heard it I was way impressed with the sounds he got. Warmoth, you are dead on about "Girl Gone Bad." What an amazing song for production/engineering/performance. 1984 was the first album they cut at the 5150 studio--when it was hardly a studio. They recorded and mixed on a 16-track in just a couple of rooms, and I'd put that one up as the best sounding Dave-era VH album.

Warmoth, dude, yes... When my students ask me about bass lines, I tell them Paul McCartney and Jack Bruce. When they ask about songwriting (in addition to working with them on key signatures and diatonic chords) I tell them The Beatles.

[Warmoth]

Sometimes when you have limited resources it forces you to be more creative and try harder. When 5150 was brand new Eddie had a lot to prove, he had very little equipment (relatively) and a ton of inspiration. All of that can equal trememndous results.... as heard on 1984. You could say the same thing for 5150 material wise (and guitar tone wise). In the case of the Beatles, this is very true as well. Sgt. Pepper was done a 4 track for God's sake.

My rules of thumb...

All the expensive gear can't make play great.

All the expensive gear can't make you write great music.

If it sounds good it is good.

New gear CAN inspire you to write new material.

[Majestic]

I thought "Up For Breakfast" was the Wolfgang with a P90 pickup?

That tune has way more picking dynamics than any recent recording I can think of.

As far as the 5150 goes, I guess I'd say that the Lead channel is so compressed, that by the time you run it through effects, and then compress it on the mixing board, and then it's compressed again later, it just sounds........ugh.

I sold mine, and I don't miss the stock tones. Probably should've tried it with EL-34s and Greenbacks, but it's too late now.

[AT]

I thought "Up For Breakfast" was the Wolfgang with a P90 pickup?

That tune has way more picking dynamics than any recent recording I can think of.

As far as the 5150 goes, I guess I'd say that the Lead channel is so compressed, that by the time you run it through effects, and then compress it on the mixing board, and then it's compressed again later, it just sounds........ugh.

I sold mine, and I don't miss the stock tones. Probably should've tried it with EL-34s and Greenbacks, but it's too late now.

Where'd you hear it was a Wolfgang with a P-90? I did one of my custom Wolfies with a Phat Cat in the neck, and I've been debating putting one in the bridge as well.