Ray Danniels was fired back in '99

D · 11.15.02, 05:12 PM

It's all right here in this old interview with Mike Anthony.
http://www.angelfire.com/rock/vanhal...interview.html

**seenbad** · 11.15.02, 06:15 PM

Right. But the legal battle lingers on me thinks...

**Wolfman** · 11.15.02, 06:42 PM

Exactly - it's been fairly well-known since that interview that RD was indeed fired from the band, but that doesn't mean that he isn't a thorn in their side and a possible reason for delay. As a matter of fact, it lends a lot more credence to the idea, since the guy was in it for the fucking money to begin with and is probably still trying to get a cut out of something that not only did he contribute absolutely nothing positive for, he may very well have brought VH down single-handedly.

**Daved Mikalex** · 11.15.02, 08:03 PM

My understanding is that RD (wrongly or rightly) may still be eligable for VH royalties. That is one of the main reasons things are so fucked up.

Thats a depressing interview to read, 1999 and nothing has changed !

**Glenn** · 11.15.02, 08:57 PM

I don't believe for one second that Ray is the reason for the delay. He may still be in VH's pockets, but contributing to the delay? I don't think so.

If it's Dave that VH wanted, and Ray is still bound to the band here at the end of 2002, why did they attempt to start things up with Dave in 2000?

I guess it's possible Ray is the holdup if it's Sammy they're now interested in, if Sammy has his heels dug in about making ANY cash for Ray. But I don't think a Sammy reunion is imminent either way.

**Daved Mikalex** · 11.16.02, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by Glenn:
I don't believe for one second that Ray is the reason for the delay. He may still be in VH's pockets, but contributing to the delay? I don't think so.

If it's Dave that VH wanted, and Ray is still bound to the band here at the end of 2002, why did they attempt to start things up with Dave in 2000?

I guess it's possible Ray is the holdup if it's Sammy they're now interested in, if Sammy has his heels dug in about making ANY cash for Ray. But I don't think a Sammy reunion is imminent either way.

I said it was "one" of the main reasons. Van Halen didnt sit down with Dave, discuss all the legal ramifications, and then start jamming. They started playing together and then the legal bullshit kicked in. I dont know all the ins and outs but have heard that:

(Main fucking holdups)

-Dave wanted equal share and control (Ed did not want this) So Dave was made a "hired gun" offer
which was still quite a good one, but not the equal share and control he wanted.
-Ray's management was during Sammy's era, and still has effect to this day, so Dave would be subjected to Ray's bullshit even though he was never in the band when Ray was there. You cant see a problem here ??
-Ed's personal life, both health and marriage
-Ed and Dave still needing to resolve issues.

My 2 cents worth is that Dave will have to call Ed and agree to take the original offer, and resign himself to the fact that he wont have the control and equality he had back in the 80's.
Dave will also have to agree to take onboard the fucked up management decisions the brothers had made previously..

Ed will have to accept the fact that this is what
the fans (and sponsors) truly want. Not #4 !

Will this ever happen ? Thats the million dollar question.

**Bob_R** · 11.16.02, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by Glenn:
I don't believe for one second that Ray is the reason for the delay. He may still be in VH's pockets, but contributing to the delay? I don't think so.

If it's Dave that VH wanted, and Ray is still bound to the band here at the end of 2002, why did they attempt to start things up with Dave in 2000?

I guess it's possible Ray is the holdup if it's Sammy they're now interested in, if Sammy has his heels dug in about making ANY cash for Ray. But I don't think a Sammy reunion is imminent either way.

Glenn you hit the nail right on the fucking head. I was reading thru this thread and what you posted is exactly what I was going to say. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

Danniels cannot be the sole reason for the delay because if it had worked w/Roth in 2000, we would have had music by now.

I believe the delay is because of Ed's personal life.

**ecubuc** · 11.16.02, 11:10 AM

I personally beleive that RD is still contractually included in anything that the band produces. When the comments about lawyers being the holdup for the band and Roth, that meant that DLR was not going to have his share cut due to a stupid contract that the band was locked into. Neither will Sam Hagar.

**Glenn** · 11.16.02, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Daved Mikalex:
I said it was "one" of the main reasons.

Just for the record, my post wasn't directed at you or motivated by what you stated. [img]smile.gif[/img]

-Dave wanted equal share and control (Ed did not want this) So Dave was made a "hired gun" offer
which was still quite a good one, but not the equal share and control he wanted.

I can easily see that being true. Obviously Dave wants some control given that he's a key player. However, a person would be delusional to think that Ed and Al are ever going to give ANYONE any real power inside the band again.

And here again, this is why I hate the whole "lawyers screwed it up" cop-out. If Dave wants 25%, but Eddie only wants him to by on salary, and then their respective lawyers get into it over the details, THAT'S NOT A LAWYER PROBLEM!! It's time to stop blaming lawyers and blame Ed and Dave for not being able to come to an agreement. Having said that, if either feels they're being treated unfairly, they retain the right to walk away, but then don't drop the blame on their legal representation.

-Ed and Dave still needing to resolve issues.

Ed and Dave both need to realize they are NEVER going to resolve their issues. They're always going to be polar opposites. What they need to decide is, is there a great enough payoff (financial or goalwise) for them to put in a set period of time where they have to deal with one another to record and tour? My guess is that no, it isn't ever going to happen.

**Daved Mikalex** · 11.16.02, 01:21 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Glenn:

What they need to decide is, is there a great enough payoff (financial or goalwise) for them to put in a set period of time where they have to deal with one another to record and tour? My guess is that no, it isn't ever going to happen.

It does look that way, but then again everytime we think they couldnt possibly get back together,
they give it another go. It was closer to happening in 2000 than it ever has been. Third time lucky ?

**Glenn** · 11.16.02, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by EVH FANATIC:
I believe the delay is because of Ed's personal life.

You think Ed is waiting out his Valerie situation so he doesn't have to share any reunion money with her? Or that he's just dealing with enough shit (health included) that he doesn't want to face the undertaking that would be a full scale two year reunion project?

To me, Dave doing a VH heavy setlist tour in mid 2002 speaks volumes. Anytime Dave goes out with a VH setlist, I think that tells us that he doesn't think he'll be working with VH anytime in the foreseeable future.

A lot of those classic VH tunes were dormant before Dave decided to play them on his last bunch of tours. If Dave thought he might be touring with Van Halen in 2003, wouldn't it make sense to put those songs away so they'd pack that much more punch when they come roaring out of the arena speakers when VH hits the stage? I don't think Dave would do a solo tour almost exclusively made up of VH songs if he believed that he had a chance to front VH soon.

Granted a full scale VH reunion tour would appeal to a WAY wider spectrum of people than a solo Dave tour, but I still think that Dave knows enough about human nature and expectations that he'd keep those VH tunes away from the stage until he could perform them the way they started, and the way they deserve to be heard; namely with himself backed by the brothers Van Halen and their half brother Mikey.

**Daved Mikalex** · 11.16.02, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by Glenn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by EVH FANATIC:
I believe the delay is because of Ed's personal life.

To me, Dave doing a VH heavy setlist tour in mid 2002 speaks volumes. Anytime Dave goes out with a VH setlist, I think that tells us that he doesn't think he'll be working with VH anytime in the foreseeable future.

</font>[/QUOTE]Or to prove to the brothers that he still can actually reproduce that material live...

**Glenn** · 11.16.02, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Daved Mikalex:
Or to prove to the brothers that he still can actually reproduce that material live...

Yeah, the first couple of tours Dave did with mostly VH stuff lead to people saying it was Dave "auditioning" for the VH boys. I was never a big fan of that theory.

I think Ed and Al want to know whether Dave can sing, period. Not "can he sing a handful of specific songs".

If VH wanted to work with Dave, and respected and accepted where Dave is at vocally, with a singing machine like Mikey in the band, there's no reason they couldn't find a pocket where Dave could shine.

From what I've heard lately, Dave tends to be his own worst enemy if he's indeed "auditioning". I mean, he sounds better than he's sounded in 7 or 8 years, then he starts into that yelping that he can't pull off anymore. Now you know that Eddie is insecure and looking for a reason to blame Dave's voice for things, and Dave opens the door wide for it. I'm impressed with whatever Dave's done with his vocals, but someone needs to convince him that the deep scream is a mess and to put it away.

Sorry, off topic a bit there.

For the last couple of years, I've thought that if Dave truly wanted to make a statement to VH about his vocals, he should pull out Me Wise Magic live and find a way to make it sound great. Dave's vocals were hit and miss on that studio track, and proving to the VH's that he could make it work live would be a feather in his cap if you want to go on the theory that Ed and Al are watching (and grading) Dave's performances.

**Daved Mikalex** · 11.16.02, 08:36 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Glenn:

For the last couple of years, I've thought that if Dave truly wanted to make a statement to VH about his vocals, he should pull out Me Wise Magic live and find a way to make it sound great. Dave's vocals were hit and miss on that studio track, and proving to the VH's that he could make it work live would be a feather in his cap if you want to go on the theory that Ed and Al are watching (and grading) Dave's performances.

Great Point ! I think that is an excellent concept. However I always thought MWM was a little unfair on Dave, as it probably suits Sammy's higher range, more than Dave's.
You would hope that the brothers "pocket" you mentioned included songs suited to his range, not
the higher pitched stuff that Sammy does.

I personally would love to see Dave perform MWM live.

**Zahzoo** · 11.18.02, 07:36 AM

For a time possibly Dave was performing the VH catalog as a way showing he's still got some of the stuff... but on the other hand I think it was more of business decision to go that route.

Whoever is in Dave's inner business circle knew that Dave's biggest commercial draw today would be his VH material... not that he didn't produce some great solo stuff... but to get promotors on-board and actually back this then it appears the VH catlog was the best viable choice.

I would say the decision of what material Dave performs is much more geared to what could be promoted and sold far more so than than what Dave might choose to deliver himself... that includes proving something to the VH brothers...