Vocal melodies writing credit

**Duck** · 09.22.06, 12:20 PM

Ed has been quoted stating that all Sam and Dave ever contributed were lyrics and the singing, but he wrote *all* the music (including the vocal melodies).

Any truth to that?

Also there is the matter of Dave and Sam's occasional guitar playing. Did Ed write those parts too for them?

**chefcraig** · 09.22.06, 12:33 PM

He may have "written" all of the music, yet from time to time Sam or Ted Templemann would "suggest" changes: repeat this here, use the chorus as a verse, ect.

This was true of "Right Now", which had the verse as the chorus before it was changed during the recording of "F.U.C.K."

I doubt you could call the parts that Roth or Hagar played on guitar as being "written" for them. One basically looks over the other guy's shoulder, see's what he's playing, then duplicates it. It's not like EVH wrote out the pieces or "scored" them.

**stratogibson** · 09.22.06, 02:23 PM

I'm going to ball BS. Singers create the vocal melody, god knows the vocal melodies changed dramatically between Dave and Sam. I'm sure Ed has ideas on some songs like all songwriters do.

**belikemike** · 09.22.06, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by stratogibson

I'm going to ball BS. Singers create the vocal melody, god knows the vocal melodies changed dramatically between Dave and Sam. I'm sure Ed has ideas on some songs like all songwriters do.

Yes, BS. Dave and Sam's influences on the music are quite stark. Just compare Dave and Sam era's stuff and you hear it. Then compare either one of those to III and it's clear what not having a powerful balance to EVH produces.
I've read many times that Sam came up with most of the melodies (even EVH interviews), and I'm guessing that's true of Dave as well.

**Ashe** · 09.23.06, 01:19 PM

Eddie wrote the riffs, rhythms, chord progessions, intros, solos, etc. You know, all the non-lyric stuff. Then I bet Roth or Hagar, came up with the lyrics and melodies. But I have to think they collided/compromised/collaborated a many times with the arrangements though.

**belikemike** · 09.23.06, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Ashe

Eddie wrote the riffs, rhythms, chord progessions, intros, solos, etc. You know, all the non-lyric stuff. Then I bet Roth or Hagar, came up with the lyrics and melodies. But I have to think they collided/compromised/collaborated a many times with the arrangements though.

This is exactly how I assumed it went.

**te5150** · 09.24.06, 12:34 AM

Sam and Dave deserve the credit for writing the melodies. Which is no easy task considering how full Eddie's work is.

For proof, I present: Ed wrote the vocal melodies for "Death by Hollywood" and "How Many Say I."

AT · 09.24.06, 09:31 AM

I recall an interview with Mitch Malloy (could have the singer on III) where he said that DLR should instead be the next vocalist of VH, and Eddie got very defensive and claimed to have written all the melodies during the Roth era. This would have been '96, right after the appearance on the MTV Video Awards. Now Roth has never been the most musical guy, so I'm sure he needed some steering with regard to melody, but he did okay on his solo stuff--same with Sammy. There's also numerous interviews over the years where Eddie claimed to have been very impressed with Sammy's ability to come up with lyrics and melody so fast ("Summer Nights," "Right Now," "Finish What Ya Started"). Sammy also talked a lot during the VH era about how he, Alex, and the producer would take Ed's song ideas and help twist them into their final arrangement.

YES, Eddie was the primary songwriter in VH, and most of the music and ideas were initially his, but the man is failing to give credit where credit is due. I believe that's called "disrespect."

In my band whoever brings in the main song idea is credited first; as soon as someone else contributes something to the final arrangement (melody or musical), they are credited as well. That's called "fair."

-AT

**valdez44** · 09.24.06, 07:31 PM

I've often wondered who came up with the bitching harmonies that Michael Anthony sang. I mean someone had to suggest or put the correct oooh's and ah's in the correct place with the correct pitch and all that shit......I'm sure Ed came up with those parts too.

**Bluetooth** · 09.24.06, 07:34 PM

You guys need to get laid more often.

AT · 09.24.06, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Bluetooth

You guys need to get laid more often.

What the fuck do you even mean? Everyone posting here is too much of a geek to have anything better to do? Why spend so much time caring about something that can't be changed? People do what makes them happy. And just like there's a magazine for every trade and hobby there's also an internet forum (or many) for every little tiny bit of popular culture. This really isn't anything different, except that something like Star Wars is fake and Van Halen is real.

If you took the time to visit this forum, read through it, register, and gave a fuck enough to post something, you probably need to take your own advice and get laid more.

I'm also a professional musician for a living, and I find it interesting what others have to say about songwriting credit.

And I thought I was the newbie on this forum...

**Duck** · 09.24.06, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewThomas.net

What the fuck do you even mean? Everyone posting here is too much of a geek to have anything better to do? Why spend so much time caring about something that can't be changed? People do what makes them happy. And just like there's a magazine for every trade and hobby there's also an internet forum (or many) for every little tiny bit of popular culture. This really isn't anything different, except that something like Star Wars is fake and Van Halen is real.

If you took the time to visit this forum, read through it, register, and gave a fuck enough to post something, you probably need to take your own advice and get laid more.

I'm also a professional musician for a living, and I find it interesting what others have to say about songwriting credit.

And I thought I was the newbie on this forum...

I agree, Andrew.

That said, I'm all for getting laid more.

**Foamfoot** · 09.25.06, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Bluetooth

You guys need to get laid more often.

If you post something as deep and intellectual as that, what the hell does that say about you?

**vhin04** · 09.25.06, 11:44 AM

Eddie came up with almost all of the musical ideas, riffs, etc. That would be the starting point for any VH song. Dave and Sam came up with the vocal melodies for the most part. There would be a lot of negotiation (read fighting)over changes to riffs, song structure, vocal melody, etc. by all members of the band. Al was particulary involved in directing Eddie's creativity. Eddie would often work off of one of Al's beats. Dave and Sam might suggest a change or express a like or dislike. Eddie and Al might suggest a change or like/dislike about a vocal melody. Templeman and other producers would also be involved in this process. Somewhere, at some point in time, the song would somehow be finished with a majority of those involved happy with the final product.

Eddie's beef with Mike seems to be that he contributed little or nothing to this process, yet reaped all the financial rewards. He felt this way about Mike as early as Fair Warning.

Based on all of the VH material I've read over the years, that's my understanding of how VH worked. I don't remember reading any interview where Eddie claimed to write all of the vocal melodies too. Quite frankly, I'm amazed they lasted through 6 albums with Dave and another great run with Sam. I don't know how these guys got anything done really.

Yes, I need to get laid more often.

AT · 09.25.06, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by vhin04

Eddie came up with almost all of the musical ideas, riffs, etc. That would be the starting point for any VH song. Dave and Sam came up with the vocal melodies for the most part. There would be a lot of negotiation (read fighting)over changes to riffs, song structure, vocal melody, etc. by all members of the band. Al was particulary involved in directing Eddie's creativity. Eddie would often work off of one of Al's beats. Dave and Sam might suggest a change or express a like or dislike. Eddie and Al might suggest a change or like/dislike about a vocal melody. Templeman and other producers would also be involved in this process. Somewhere, at some point in time, the song would somehow be finished with a majority of those involved happy with the final product.

Eddie's beef with Mike seems to be that he contributed little or nothing to this process, yet reaped all the financial rewards. He felt this way about Mike as early as Fair Warning.

Based on all of the VH material I've read over the years, that's my understanding of how VH worked. I don't remember reading any interview where Eddie claimed to write all of the vocal melodies too. Quite frankly, I'm amazed they lasted through 6 albums with Dave and another great run with Sam. I don't know how these guys got anything done really.

Yes, I need to get laid more often.

That all seems pretty accurate; I've gathered about the same from interviews over the years. The Balance era is when I think there was a noticeable difference in participation. According to an interview I read a few years back with Mike Plotnikoff (the 2nd Engineer), Eddie pretty much directed Michael on what to play for bass parts, and Sammy only came in for a couple hours during the afternoon to work on and record vocal parts. The old stories of Eddie and Sammy writing songs like "Finish What Ya Started" together are truly great.

My girlfriend and I keep a decent pace going, so I would say I don't need to get laid more often.

100% completely unrelated... The Twins just clinched the Wild Card spot in the AL, and they're pouring beers and champagne all over one another in the clubhouse. It's good to be a baseball fan in Minnesota right now.