Eddie.. G3.. Legends.. Marketing.. Etc........

[Rocket]

Hi All,

Just a few words written on a thread that was burried a few weeks back. I felt that it was worth a second read as it addresses quite a few issues.

1.

If you ever heard Eddie jamming with Alan Holdworth at GIT and REAL fusion musicians, you would not want Ed to try a G3 style gig.

He was way out of his league.

2.

There is also a fusion style Jam out there with Ed, Al, and mike only and it sounds a bit Satriani ish, but not nearly as good. Acctually it is pretty darm bad. A little lite in the loafers if you know what I mean.

I think Ed is great and was a true visionary, but he is only regarded as a legendary guitarist when he does what he does best. In other words, long form instrumental music was never his thing. Yes, there was Sanish Fly and Erution, and catherdrals on and on and on, but I dont think his vocabulary leads him to be as lyrical as necessary to do a full album and tour sans lyrics. Ed is really famous for his grooves, soul, rythm, and quite frankly -- mostly the CHEMISTRY that he once had with his songwriting artner DLR. I dont think using the Black and Decker drill or writing the groove from Dreams or Right Now was going to make Ed a legendary guitarist. Sorry Sammy fans, that band sold records for comletely different reasons.

I think Ed is rather could be rather sullen right now. He made a major career altering move with Charone and he doesnt appear to have many ways out of this mess. 1. Work with Dave who he has hated for 15 years, probably more like 25 years. 2. Call it quits, even though this is the thing he loves most in the world. How does he move gracefuly into the next stage of his career. Remeber many many greats dont last that as long as he has and retiring is not as easy as it sounds. Lots of ego involved for a guy like him, rightfully so. Most famous musicians, f&^% even some producers are huge schmucks personally. I dont mean if you meet them once and they seem great, I mean personally.

So quite frankly, I dont see Ed as doing a Steve Vai, Satch thing, cause that aint what he does best.

I think he must be feeling pretty f'ed up by all of this.

If he reunited with Roth and wrote some great CHEMISRTY driven tunes he can continue developing the legend of VH. A 4th singer is riskier than putting his entire portfolio on a dot com company, and retirement wont feel good, because its on a low note. If he goes the route of a 4th singer, there may not be any R&R HoF. Even now, it may take a while for them to get inducted if at all.

Id say he doesnt have too many pleasant choices right now. Hence, he sits quiet and ponders. I suspect he doesnt know what to say, and has been kicked in the teeth for quite a while now.

3.

If Roth comes back, they could have the second wind of say an Aerosmith. New life. The follow u to 1984 would be great. I think they were headed that way with MWM and CDTSNM, but they didnt give it enogh time to develo and admittidly, Daves voice was not together then. He can do it now! I think they were on to something in 2000, but then who knows. Either way, with Roth back and some of the VH CHEMISTRY music that made them LEGENDARY, they have a chance of moving on and back into a successful light. Hence, The Stones, Aerosmith, even the Who will make a new record this year and tour on it next year. I dont see these as nostalgic acts either. They are bands who do what they do best and their fans love it. We want their sound!! Is that bad. They could be in that league if its with Roth doing what they do best.

I do give Sammy huge credit for coming in and doing the right thing for the music. He didnt even try to be a VHI cover band. Honestly, he wrote very NON VH style tunes, with big safe hooks like DREAMS and RIGHT NOW and sold lots of records to many NON VHI fans. It worked and they did well, but they were not by any means legendary like VHI. I think they were more like Survivor with a great guitarist. No BALLS. VHI was a band your mom & dad did not like, VHII is a band your mom and dad actually do like. VHII was sensitive and socially active, VHI was about strength, cockiness, and defiance. Big difference there. I agree with the logic that there were 3 different bands, because they really did serve 3 different audiences and with 3 different values. VHIII went way over everybody. It was not the music that Ed does best, no CHEMISRTY and it reeks of his ego right down to getting the guy who sang More Than Words to sound like a screaming Sammy. Just crazy. Lucky for Gary, the release was such a non factor that he is unscathed and can continue to do whatever it is he does best. I wish him the best. No blame.

I want the true VH sound. I want the CHEMISRTY music back.

[WARHEAD]

I have always dug Eddie's playing, both his rhythm and soloing. It's one thing to be jamming on a song of your own and mix it up, especially when it seems to me that live, Eddie leads the way most of the time when they do start to improvise. People have pointed out that when Eddie was on SNL years ago and at a NAMM jam with Albert Lee and some other players, Eddie may have missed a change here and there, and all I can say to stuff like that, being a hack guitar player myself, is that I respect the hell out of anyone willing to get out there and let it all hang out. I have jumped in on jams at parties of songs I have never heard, with irregular changes, and it's tough enough to pick up on the chords, let alone be able to solo and rip. Just my opinion, and I too prefer Eddie's music in a group situation with vocals. His recorded and live solos are great and more than speak for themselves, and I see them as prime examples of his different techniques that he likes to employ.
It doesn't matter if it's Eddie or Clapton, if you don't know the changes, there can be some moments of question. I choose to admire someone who takes the chance to find the groove. every guitar player has been out of his element in his lifetime, even Satch and Vai, but myself I see those guys as guys who could free jam as well as anyone, but would prefer to talk over the changes of a song so they could have a map of where to go, versus just jumping on and hanging on for dear life. That's something that always go through my mind when I see any band. Could these guys jam any tune, or are they just real good at playing the songs they rehearse and play every night. Nothing against either type of band, but I prefer a group or player who can and will take a chance to improvise and change things up from time to time.

[DLR'sCock]

Dave Or The Grave!!! [img]graemlins/sssh.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/drunk.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/drunk.gif[/img]

[AxeSlinger84]

Originally posted by Rocket:
Hi All,

Just a few words written on a thread that was burried a few weeks back. I felt that it was worth a second read as it addresses quite a few issues.

1.

If you ever heard Eddie jamming with Alan Holdworth at GIT and REAL fusion musicians, you would not want Ed to try a G3 style gig.

He was way out of his league.

2.

There is also a fusion style Jam out there with Ed, Al, and mike only and it sounds a bit Satriani ish, but not nearly as good. Acctually it is pretty darm bad. A little lite in the loafers if you know what I mean.

I think Ed is great and was a true visionary, but he is only regarded as a legendary guitarist when he does what he does best. In other words, long form instrumental music was never his thing. Yes, there was Sanish Fly and Erution, and catherdrals on and on and on, but I dont think his vocabulary leads him to be as lyrical as necessary to do a full album and tour sans lyrics. Ed is really famous for his grooves, soul, rythm, and quite frankly -- mostly the CHEMISTRY that he once had with his songwriting artner DLR. I dont think using the Black and Decker drill or writing the groove from Dreams or Right Now was going to make Ed a legendary guitarist. Sorry Sammy fans, that band sold records for comletely different reasons.

I think Ed is rather could be rather sullen right now. He made a major career altering move with Charone and he doesnt appear to have many ways out of this mess. 1. Work with Dave who he has hated for 15 years, probably more like 25 years. 2. Call it quits, even though this is the thing he loves most in the world. How does he move gracefuly into the next stage of his career. Remeber many many greats dont last that as long as he has and retiring is not as easy as it sounds. Lots of ego involved for a guy like him, rightfully so. Most famous musicians, f&^% even some producers are huge schmucks personally. I dont mean if you meet them once and they seem great, I mean personally.

So quite frankly, I dont see Ed as doing a Steve Vai, Satch thing, cause that aint what he does best.

I think he must be feeling pretty f'ed up by all of this.

If he reunited with Roth and wrote some great CHEMISRTY driven tunes he can continue developing the legend of VH. A 4th singer is riskier than putting his entire portfolio on a dot com company, and retirement wont feel good, because its on a low note. If he goes the route of a 4th singer, there may not be any R&R HoF. Even now, it may take a while for them to get inducted if at all.

Id say he doesnt have too many pleasant choices right now. Hence, he sits quiet and ponders. I suspect he doesnt know what to say, and has been kicked in the teeth for quite a while now.

3.

If Roth comes back, they could have the second wind of say an Aerosmith. New life. The follow u to 1984 would be great. I think they were headed that way with MWM and CDTSNM, but they didnt give it enogh time to develo and admittidly, Daves voice was not together then. He can do it now! I think they were on to something in 2000, but then who knows. Either way, with Roth back and some of the VH CHEMISTRY music that made them LEGENDARY, they have a chance of moving on and back into a successful light. Hence, The Stones, Aerosmith, even the Who will make a new record this year and tour on it next year. I dont see these as nostalgic acts either. They are bands who do what they do best and their fans love it. We want their sound!! Is that bad. They could be in that league if its with Roth doing what they do best.

I do give Sammy huge credit for coming in and doing the right thing for the music. He didnt even try to be a VHI cover band. Honestly, he wrote very NON VH style tunes, with big safe hooks like DREAMS and RIGHT NOW and sold lots of records to many NON VHI fans. It worked and they did well, but they were not by any means legendary like VHI. I think they were more like Survivor with a great guitarist. No BALLS. VHI was a band your mom & dad did not like, VHII is a band your mom and dad actually do like. VHII was sensitive and socially active, VHI was about strength, cockiness, and defiance. Big difference there. I agree with the logic that there were 3 different bands, because they really did serve 3 different audiences and with 3 different values. VHIII went way over everybody. It was not the music that Ed does best, no CHEMISRTY and it reeks of his ego right down to getting the guy who sang More Than Words to sound like a screaming Sammy. Just crazy. Lucky for Gary, the release was such a non factor that he is unscathed and can continue to do whatever it is he does best. I wish him the best. No blame.

I want the true VH sound. I want the CHEMISRTY music back.

Why do you keep on capitalizing the word CHEMISTRY? That's really annoying but besides that, I think a lot of people just assume that since someone is some kind of "guitar hero" then they automatically can play with other "guitar heroes" and everyone is just gonna sound great together. Unfortunately there's this thing called "style" that people often forget about. Eddie Van Halen is obviously one of the most influential electric guitar players of all time but that doesn't mean that he can get onstage with someone like Alan Holdsworth or Tony MacAlpine and hold his own. Look at the way Eddie plays and look at the way Holdsworth plays. Eddie is more times than not, in the blues box pattern and every once in a while he ventures into the Dorian mode and that's normally as far as he goes when it comes to solos. A good percentage of what Holdsworth plays are intricate scalar patterns with a lot of chromatics and notes that are close together. Take someone who grew up on Clapton who is an amazing guitar player and put him with someone who studies jazz fusion guitar and chances are - it ain't gonna sound very good. Shit, even if Holdsworth wanted to, he probably wouldn't be able to subtract some of the notes he normally uses to be more in tune with EVH because that's not his style - especially in a live situation jam where you've only got a split second to plan your next move. Bottom line is that Eddie is good within his band and writing hit rock tunes but he's no good at shredding the whole time. He should keep his day job and not attempt a Vai or Satriani. Those guys don't sell any records anyway.

[VH3H8R]

[img]graemlins/irked.gif[/img] I do give Sammy huge credit for coming in and doing the right thing for the music. He didnt even try to be a VHI cover band. Honestly, he wrote very NON VH style tunes, with big safe hooks like DREAMS and RIGHT NOW and sold lots of records to many NON VHI fans. It worked and they did well, but they were not by any means legendary like VHI. I think they were more like Survivor with a great guitarist. No BALLS. VHI was a band your mom & dad did not like, VHII is a band your mom and dad actually do like. [img]graemlins/irked.gif[/img]

Funny, I never caught my parents watching the video for Poundcake. As for BALLS? AFU, SOURCE OF INFECTION, BLACK AND BLUE, SUCKER, JUDGEMENT DAY, 7TH SEAL, AMSTERDAM, AFTERSHOCK are pretty aggressive. Sorry there's no phase 90 or flanger.
Those are collecting dust along with the Marshall!

Survivor??? Arrgggg [img]graemlins/yell.gif[/img] h!!!