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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    The Decision was a conspiracy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    Yeah, the sewer/limo driver/umbrella man theories are bullshit. And like the insane 9/11 conspiracies, they cloud the actual questions and valid arguments people have.

    But there are facts surrounding what happened that day, that raise questions and point to a possible shadier reality.

    I believe men like Fletcher Prouty. E. Howard Hunt (aka one of the hobos).

    The one thing conspiracy theorists love to say is, “Well, how did everybody who was involved keep their mouth shut for 50 years?”

    And that’s definitely a valid point, until you dismiss anybody and everybody who does come forward with information. Who needed to come out and admit the Government played a part in it?

    LBJ? Would that have convinced people?


    I also find it amusing that the peoples’ faith in Government is dodgy at best yet when the Government conducts an investigation into the murder of the President, it wraps everything up for them.

    That being said, I believe it’s been polled that those who believe the “official” story are far fewer than those who believe that the official story was inaccurate and possibly a cover-up.
    Oh, I'm well aware that I'm in the minority on this subject. Not sure that makes us wrong, though. These days, I should probably seek comfort in that fact. Look how successful Trump is with his conspiracy theories. LOL ...not lumping you in with that crowd just pointing out how apparently gullible people can be.

    Yeah, I completely get your comment regarding people's faith in a supposed inept Government. With this assassination, the question can be posed to both parties, however (if, in fact, it's the government that is at the core of your particular 'theory.')

    I thought it was concluded that Hunt was not one of the hobos.

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    Two people can keep a secret as long as one of them is dead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    Two people can keep a secret as long as one of them is dead.
    Yep


    I always point to the battle plan for Desert Storm...classified out the ying-yang and held fairly close as a strategy...yet a mere two months after the fighting ended it was published in Popular Mechanics.

    When I got out of the Air Force in the mid-90s, it was still classified. Lol

    Yeah, our government is good at keeping big secrets. Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    I'm not going to claim to know what someone's head looks like after taking a head shot like that from personal experience, but there are many experts who have demonstrated that the top of Kennedy's head blowing off is actually the result of fluid dynamics where the bullet cracked Kennedy's skull upon entry, the bullet exited the front, then as the essentially liquified contents of the bullet's path sloshed around (this is in a mere fraction of second for time reference) it caused the pressure to build forcing the material out at the weakest point which happened to be near the entry wound. I've seen a demonstration of this on TV before using a dummy and ballistics gel so I would imagine it's floating around on the internets somewhere.

    The real problem with putting a shooter at the front (or anywhere else for that matter), is the entire idea of setting up Oswald as a patsy becomes impossible. Consider the fact that someone would have to take the shot in the middle of a crowd of people almost ensuring eyewitnesses that could identify them which means you need numerous people in the plaza to shuttle people away from the scene. The biggest problem is the idea of any missing bullet or fragments that would come from that shot. You would have to make sure the "real" shooter doesn't miss or else the whole thing is blown (or miss the entry point...what if he misses slightly on the angle and shoots Kennedy in the chest?) That "real" bullet would have to end up in Kennedy's brain and NOT exit, because if it did you have the same problem as if he missed: you need people deployed on scene immediately to find the bullet and hide the evidence plus stage all of the competing evidence.

    This is why all of the conspiracies become so convoluted, because the logistics are impossible to fit together to where they make sense. As has been pointed out multiple times, Oswald had his job in the TSBD before Kennedy's team ever scheduled a visit to Dallas. There was no route planned at the time which means they either had potential patsies working in jobs in high rises along multiple routes in multiple cities OR someone on the inside of Kennedy's personal political team AND the Secret Service were in on it and were able to push things in those directions without drawing attention to themselves. Both stretch credibility on their face, but are basically impossible upon closer inspection anyway. The whole operation would have been null if Kennedy insisted on the hard top (he actually did the opposite). It would have also been ruined if there was rain that day forcing them to put the top on.

    There were dozens of things that had to go right for Oswald to kill Kennedy, but there are basically thousands of things that would have to go right for them to pull off a conspiracy and to keep it hidden.
    There was no crowd on the grassy knoll...they were sullosedly shunned off by men in suits w badges...
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    Two people can keep a secret as long as one of them is dead.
    Its actually
    Three can keep a secret if two are dead...
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    “A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.”

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    https://www.archives.gov/research/jf...t/summary.html
    This states probably the result of a conspiracy...
    I don't know, guess we never will
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    “A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy812 View Post
    LOL...I don't know about the wind that day. But the car was moving forward and his head does move forward before going back. The top right portion of his skull is blown out and that force also contributed to his head going back...and to the left.
    I'm not sure the soccer ball analogy works in this scenario.
    Roger that. It's fun to throw it around. Not going be that guy that thinks the gov planned this and LBJ, said hell yeah. I just reason that by certain shit, the money shot was from the front. Who took that shot? No clue on this end. But LHO, didn't make the money shot. In my opinion. Plus I love a good soccer ball analogy. Don't deny me that! It wasn't mine btw. LOL. Out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy812 View Post
    Oh, I'm well aware that I'm in the minority on this subject. Not sure that makes us wrong, though. These days, I should probably seek comfort in that fact. Look how successful Trump is with his conspiracy theories. LOL ...not lumping you in with that crowd just pointing out how apparently gullible people can be.

    Yeah, I completely get your comment regarding people's faith in a supposed inept Government. With this assassination, the question can be posed to both parties, however (if, in fact, it's the government that is at the core of your particular 'theory.')

    I thought it was concluded that Hunt was not one of the hobos.
    It certainly doesn't make you or what you believe to be true, wrong. That wasn't my implication, in the slightest.

    People are indeed gullible. I think a case can be made that there are gullible people on both sides of this debate.

    I didn't hear that it was confirmed it "couldn't" be Hunt but it looks like that's correct. A renowned FBI photo analyst concluded Hunt or Frank Sturgis were not in that photograph. This under the umbrella of a "whitewash" federal investigation into the CIA so I'm not so sure that closes the book on it.

    If that FBI analyst concludes that he can identify and photo match E Howard Hunt in that photograph...it completely undermines the Warren Commission and the entire Government's established record of what happened in Dealey Plaza that day, considering there's no record of those three tramps being detained or questioned. Would you want to be that guy in 1975? Not to get too crazy, but he probably wouldn't make it home that day...

    Now....devil's advocate.... let's assume the cops did detain those three tramps and they identified themselves as CIA operatives, why make them do a perp walk outside of the fucking TSBD or police station? If they just identified themselves as tramps, why not just let them walk out the front door themselves. Question and release them?

    I still don't buy that those were three "tramps", unfortunately. Way too clean shaven, neat and well dressed to be tramps.

    Then again, if they were the shooters or were involved in the shooting as some claim and they were CIA guys couldn't they have done a better job of actually looking like tramps? You're literally THE spy agency of the US....and you give the guys, what look to be, new blazers off the rack?

    The most trampy looking of em all appears to be the guy who looks like Hunt and even then the resemblance is uncanny.


    Last edited by MF5150; 12.02.20 at 04:35 AM.
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    One of the tramps was also tentatively identified as George W. Bush.

    Who was by all accounts never more than a manager and ultimately the 11th director at the CIA...not a field operator.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    It certainly doesn't make you or what you believe to be true, wrong. That wasn't my implication, in the slightest.

    People are indeed gullible. I think a case can be made that there are gullible people on both sides of this debate.

    I didn't hear that it was confirmed it "couldn't" be Hunt but it looks like that's correct. A renowned FBI photo analyst concluded Hunt or Frank Sturgis were not in that photograph. This under the umbrella of a "whitewash" federal investigation into the CIA so I'm not so sure that closes the book on it.

    If that FBI analyst concludes that he can identify and photo match E Howard Hunt in that photograph...it completely undermines the Warren Commission and the entire Government's established record of what happened in Dealey Plaza that day, considering there's no record of those three tramps being detained or questioned. Would you want to be that guy in 1975? Not to get too crazy, but he probably wouldn't make it home that day...

    Now....devil's advocate.... let's assume the cops did detain those three tramps and they identified themselves as CIA operatives, why make them do a perp walk outside of the fucking TSBD or police station? If they just identified themselves as tramps, why not just let them walk out the front door themselves. Question and release them?

    I still don't buy that those were three "tramps", unfortunately. Way too clean shaven, neat and well dressed to be tramps.

    Then again, if they were the shooters or were involved in the shooting as some claim and they were CIA guys couldn't they have done a better job of actually looking like tramps? You're literally THE spy agency of the US....and you give the guys, what look to be, new blazers off the rack?

    The most trampy looking of em all appears to be the guy who looks like Hunt and even then the resemblance is uncanny.
    Agreed that people on both sides can be gullible, especially since that's how one side frequently views the other.

    Like I said, I've been out of the game for a while, but I thought the 3 tramps were indeed detained and questioned. A quick search about them says they were arrested and released 4 days later. They had spent the night at a homeless shelter the night before where they showered and ate. I know, how convenient to explain away their clean-shaven faces. This may be a good example of me being gullible but I believe it. It appears to me you only come to those conclusions if you're actively looking for a conspiracy. The tramps didn't look like tramps? IDK, maybe in 1963 tramps had a little more dignity. lol

    Yeah, I would think that if they were CIA operatives they would have better disguises. And I'm certainly no expert but I don't think they'd be in that railway yard. In fact, I don't think they would have done this in Dealey Plaza.

    You should have this discussion with evhintexas, since he just posted that link to the Summary Findings. One of the claims is that the CIA was not involved in the assassination.

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    For me it comes down to simply not believing Oswald made those shots with that gun and scope.

    I believe he was a patsy, and then they killed him.

    No proof of course, I just don't think a guy misses the entire fucking car with his first shot, and then hits a moving target the size of a dinner plate on his second.

    I don't know who did of course, there are plenty of possibilities, but I don't think it was Oswald.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombattt View Post
    One of the tramps was also tentatively identified as George W. Bush.

    Who was by all accounts never more than a manager and ultimately the 11th director at the CIA...not a field operator.
    I've never seen that anywhere.

    I've seen people claiming he was in dealy plaza but not that he was a tramp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    For me it comes down to simply not believing Oswald made those shots with that gun and scope.

    I believe he was a patsy, and then they killed him.

    No proof of course, I just don't think a guy misses the entire fucking car with his first shot, and then hits a moving target the size of a dinner plate on his second.

    I don't know who did of course, there are plenty of possibilities, but I don't think it was Oswald.
    I agree and would like to add if your first murder is on the president of the USA long range with a moving target and you have never been in combat or gang warfare etc your going to be shaking like a leaf in a polar vortex. I don't care what you do on the rifle range in basic training. It's kinda like Fredo trying to squeeze one off after watching his father get mowed down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evhintexas View Post
    https://www.archives.gov/research/jf...t/summary.html
    This states probably the result of a conspiracy...
    I don't know, guess we never will
    This was the second commission put together after the conspiracy movement gained momentum. Unfortunately they largely based their claims of conspiracy on misunderstood evidence and it's provenance. The idea of more than one shooter was almost completely supported by a recording from a motorcycle which purports to show more than three shots. The problem is that recording was misattributed to the person they thought and therefore the acoustic analysis was based on false assumptions and timelines. A more recent analysis concluded there was no evidence of gunshots in the audio at all.
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