Those Damn Brits!

[Lodewijk]

A Buddy of mine and I were thinking of what other AMERICAN rock bands compare to VH(in our eyes anyway),we came up with a few(Aerosmith,Grateful Dead,maybe Metallica),but we were really struggling with it!My question is this......Why are all the "supergroups" brits?I mean The Stones,The Who,Led Zepplin,The Beatles and others are all considered tops in their genres'?Are they really that much better than their American counterparts?Just a little something different to debate I guess.

[Raldo]

I've thought about that question for years. Why does that little island produce such great rock and roll? What makes that group of people write songs that stand the test of time? Maybe someone on this board who is from Britain could enlighten us.

[Grover]

Well, really the meaning of "supergroup" is a group that has seperate stars coming together to form a band. Seldom do these "supergroups" last

Cream (Clapton, Baker, Bruce)
The Firm (Page, Paul Rogers)
Asia (Palmer, Howe, Wetton)

Then again...

Crosby, Stills, Nash
Van Hagar

[Lodewijk]

GROVER...
Sorry for the mis-use of the term,I stand corrected! But you know what I meant.
Thanks for the correction though.

[Dr. Love]

Actually, I hate British Rock. I think it's atrocious.

[Rocket]

England is a wet, dark, and depressing environment and during the 60's there was plenty of political and social strife. That enviroment makes for great rock music. The 60's in England was the era of the Supergroup legends.

The US music scene always seemed more focused on the positive and then as time went by the commercial side of things even going back to the Beach Boys.

The Who didn't write 5:15 becasue it was a great pop song that was expected to sell tons of records, (which shameful enough it never did) but Townshend wrote it define his own personal feelings of alienation in a time of pomp and circumstance. Brits were seen but not heard, he wanted to be heard and not seen (ugly bloke and he knew it).

Steve Tyler and Dave Roth were sex symbols and who were iconified because everyone wanted to be like them: Hot dudes who were babe magnet party animals. They were quite the opposite of the insecure mod wannabes.

Townshend spoke for the losers, not the winners.

In other words "Love Reign O'er Me" can never be compared to "Love In An Elevator", cause the depth behind the motivating spirit of the 60's is just plain inconcievable now.

I think the problem with music now is there is no motivation other than fame and money and I think that makes for poor art, but great pop melodies.

Green Day has the depth of a Hyundai paint job.

This is my opinion of why the legends came from England and all seem to come from the same dismal era.

[swampash]

Lodewijk5150,
If you are talking about longevity of career I would add Kiss, ZZ Top, Cheap Trick and Rush to the list, from a North American point of view.

If you are talking the longevity of their music,
(I mean what have the Stones, Led Zep, the Who etc produced in the last 20 years in the way of relevant material? Nada)
then I would say:
Jimi Hendrix (although he did have to go to England to make it) Steppenwolf, CCR

Though neither English or American, U2 is probably the last of the 'long career' bands given the current ongoing state of the instant pop idol music industry.

[swampash]

Very true longaway,
Capitol in particular have been notoriously short sided in the careers of their artists.
Badfinger comes to mind. On the momentum created by two hit singles, "Come And Get It" and "No Matter What", "Striaght Up" was set to break the band big in the US. However its release was held up by non payment of some studio fees, it's a convoluted story but the album began being recorded by George Harrison and was re-recorded by Todd Rundgren. Anyway, by the time the album was released the public had moved on, it didn't have the impact it should have, and despite the lack of push "Day After Day" became a respectable hit.
Pete Ham was destroyed by the short sided judgement of Capitol that left his masterpiece to die on the vine and drove him to suicide. He left a note calling Capitol "soulless bastards".
In an effort to recover a comparably small amount of money, Capitol let millions slip through their fingers and destroyed a career and the lives associated with these talents.

[ February 17, 2003, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: swampash ]

[THE MARD]

This is a good thread!
Very interesting...

Kudos to Rocket and longaway! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

[JK5150]

I dont think those bands are "super groups". I much prefer American Rock to English music. The music scene in this country is crap. Its all pop, rap and dance, and even the rock bands these days suck. People seem to have forgotten the guitar!

[Pat]

Originally posted by Rocket:
England is a wet, dark, and depressing environment

Rocket, with the utmost respect - I've got to say you really are talking out of your arse. Contrary to popular misconceptions England is NOT under constant precipitation, and we pretty much get as much daylight as you folks in the good old US of A. I don't find England the least bit depressing, funnily enough I rather enjoy living here. By the way, don't know when you last visited London, but the streets are not constanly veiled in Sherlock Holmesian fog with the dim view of Big Ben and the Houses of Parliament on the horizon - we actually GET a summer as well! Please don't make sweeping statements like this, as I certainly don't subscribe to the many American stereotypes I could, but won't, mention here - you may have found them marginally insulting [img]tongue.gif[/img] Cheers matey.

[longaway]

A great question! One of the biggest reasons that my circle of friends and I have come up with (and yes, we've discussed this same thing many times) was the intereference of the record labels and poor management.

Poor management in the area that the managers didn't hold the labels at bay like their British counterparts did. Granted, not all of the Brit managers were great, or even good for their band's, but they did manage to deal with labels much better than the American managers.

The labels were just bastards. It was all about pushing out more product and not fucking with the formula. Look at what Capitol did to the Beach Boys! From Oct 62 to Oct 64 they had the Boys push out 8 studio albums and a live album. All the while, the band was keeping track with The Beatles, matching them in popularity polls and reviews (not to mention live performances). When the Beatles upped the ante with Rubber Soul, the Beach Boys (ne Brian Wilson) go one better by releasing Pet Sounds. Even though it had 4 hit singles on it, the album wasn't selling as well as the label wanted, so they released a Best Of album. 8 weeks after Pet Sounds was released. And still on the charts. Care to take a guess which album Capitol put their marketing muscle behind? Think they would gotten away with pulling that kind of shit on the Beatles? Epstein would've castrated 'em. After that Brian Wilson (the brains in the goup) cracked completely, the band went to shit. And the Beatles are alone on the top of the heap.

Granted, that didn't happened to every American band that was a legit contender, but similar stories sure as hell plagued a lot of them.

And there are definitely other factors too. Brits tend to be more opened minded, music wise, and allow their bands more room to experiment. They also seem to be a bit more respectful to their older artists, willing to give their newer material more of a chance and not automatically push their older work onto the "Oldies" station like Americans do. Americans tend to want their bands pushed into a solid category. And if you're an old act, forget it. You're lucky to make it onto the "Oldies" playlist, much less have anyone listen to something new.

[VanHalen2079]

Yet do you realize how many bands wouldn't be around without Cream, The Stones, The Who, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin?

[Rocket]

Pat -

No disrespect to the UK. I love England, my fav band is The Who, and I drive an English car for better or worse!

But, there is a reason why the Beach Boys wrote California Girls, and the Mama's & Papa's wrote California Dreamin' during a similar time when The Who wrote My Generation, Drowned, and 5:15, and the Stones wrote Can't Get No "Satisfaction".

Enland went through a long dark post war period while the US was busy "Making Love" and eventually "Making Whoopee". Woodstock especially come to mind - then the "Dating Game". Love American Style or Faulty Towers...come on.

As far as the weather, some may love the rain, and appreciate the changes of season there, but the sun shines well over 320 days a year in California, nary is it below 65 degrees during the day (that's 18 C). I don't think there is an environmental comparison there.

History tells us the post-war rebuild was far more difficult for our English friends than for us.

That's why I think the best music in Rock ever has come out of the UK. Timing + Environment.

Look at other dark music regional roots -
Grunge - Rainy Seattle (rich kids with needles)
Punk - cold rainy UK London - Then cold rainy NYC (poor kids with needles)

Makes sense to me.

Hey - I lived in NY for over 30 years, so I know what a major part the environment plays for art and music.

ps.. I love England!

[mistere]

I think it may be true that Britain produced
most of the premeire classic rock in the 60s
& 70s, but name one good 'rock' band from the
isles in the last 20-30 years. Say Oasis and
I'll kick yer ass with a butter knife.
I think the "invasion" era was just a magical
time and it happened that England in particular
had its finger on the pulse a the time.
But seriously, I can't think of one band past
Queen that has been worth a shit from that side
of the pond, save for maybe Radiohead.
But as much as I love them, I'm not sure they really qualify; Artful yes, but they don't really know how to bring the rock ala Zep/Who/ etc.
More of a modern day Floyd, if anything.

[ February 18, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: mistere ]