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  1. #9586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Filoni and Favreau should be running SW, Kennedy should be nowhere near it.
    That decision should have been made in 2012.

    I weep at the thought of a Filoni/Favreau led Skywalker-ending trilogy. The Mandalorian is just so great at capturing Lucasí initial vision of Star Wars being a space Western.



    Kennedy was a logical choice though. She and her husband had been involved in so many of Lucasí and Spielbergís productions.


    Iím just not sure what the fuck was going through her or Igerís head when it came to plotting out this trilogy, aside from dollar signs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    That decision should have been made in 2012.


    I weep at the thought of a Filoni/Favreau led Skywalker-ending trilogy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Can you imagine?

    They packed more emotional impact into three minutes of the Mandalorian than were in all three prequels and sequels combined.
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    Default The Official Star Wars Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Can you imagine?

    They packed more emotional impact into three minutes of the Mandalorian than were in all three prequels and sequels combined.
    Hell, they brought Luke back because they wanted to give the fucking character an entrance and a send off that he deserved.

    In five minutes they redeemed an entire character. Brought Hamill in and gave him the respect he deserved.


    That was basically them saying, ĒFuck you...We need to give the fans this properly....You guys didnít do it....We are going to....Ē

    I only wish my girlfriend and I hadnít waited to binge the entire series on Xmas, because the reveal was spoiled for me by people on FB and YT losing their minds.


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    Hell, Rogue One is the best movie since ROTJ, and we already knew how it ended.

    It also had an extremely diverse cast, which of course, I didn't even notice until it was pointed out to me, because...wait for it...wait for it.

    It's a good movie and it wasn't done in a heavy handed way.
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    I still havenít made it past the first half of Rogue One. Took a bit to get going and Iíve fallen asleep both times trying to watch it.


    But by all accounts, itís a solid film.


    I did watch the ending scene with Vader and it was phenomenal. Some call that overt fan service. I call that giving the masses what they want.


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    TFA had a very, VERY low bar to clear for fans to like it. You had the original characters returning. You had 30 years of nostalgia just teed up and ready to be smacked out of the park. I think most fans came out and were happy that it wasn't Episode I all over again. It wasn't until you got home and started thinking about it that a lot of felt like it didn't fit together properly.

    My only gripes in TFA were (and you can go back to my posts when the movie came as I documented my thoughts here then):

    1) Rey's abilities didn't make any sense. However, it was set up that there was more to her story and I said at the time that if they could adequately explain why she was so powerful so quickly I could maybe get on board.

    2) Han's death. It felt like a waste. Yes, they set it up that he was going to try to bring his son home for Leia, but that was their own construction. One read through of the rough draft should have told them it fell flat. I remember being angry at the movie from that moment on because I felt a great disturbance in the force: that the people running this thing had no idea what the fuck they were doing with the story. I tried to bury it, but it turns out my gut instinct was right.

    3) Chewy walking by Leia after Han just died and Leia hugging Rey. I saw it happen and I was like Again, that told me they rushed through the script and the making of the movie and it was a harbinger of just how clueless the writing/producing/editing team were going to be through the series.

    But I loved the fresh look and how beautiful everything was. I was buying into the characters. I liked Finn and Poe. I had high hopes. Had.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  7. #9592
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    Quote Originally Posted by MF5150 View Post
    I still havenít made it past the first half of Rogue One. Took a bit to get going and Iíve fallen asleep both times trying to watch it.


    But by all accounts, itís a solid film.


    I did watch the ending scene with Vader and it was phenomenal. Some call that overt fan service. I call that giving the masses what they want.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I like the concept of Rogue One, but much like the midichlorians, it's misstep is attempting to explain something that doesn't need explaining. The exhaust port issue is explained in a New Hope as the Empire's arrogance of not anticipating small fighters being an issue against a grand technological terror.

    I appreciate their efforts to keep the time period consistent with the look, I liked the "Dirty Dozen" feeling of getting this random group of unique characters together for a heist, and it had moments of levity like any Star Wars movie should. Overall I enjoyed it, but without the original trilogy as a backdrop, the movie isn't really memorable by itself.

    The Vader scene would have made more sense in Episode III because when we see him literally a few hours later in A New Hope he's not nearly that powerful or intimidating in his fighting style. Again, those are the issues you run into when you try to make a prequel for a movie that was never really intended to have one when it was written, but I can let it slide because the scene is awesome.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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    Rogue One is a very good movie. I mean the ending starting with them overlooking the ocean and then Vader was great. You actually cared. You felt something. Instead of being in a Sci Fi movie, it actually had a movie element to it.

    In TLJ I wanted Finn to die as he charged into the death ray. Was so mad when Rose saved hi. The only characters I liked by the end of the trilogy was Poe (only due to his little arc in ROS) and BB 8.

    I do believe Mtich is right that Rey was always supposed to be connected with Palps due to her lightsaber style in TFA. Very similar to Palpatine as he fought Mace and Yoda.

    Sorry to bring VH analogies but Kennedy is the Mike Post of Star Wars.

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    I mean, this has been debated ad nauseam on here.

    I don't think anyone disagrees, even the people around me who, anecdotally, mostly like the trilogy, that there should have been an overarching plan in place first before shooting day 1. That's especially true with how seamlessly and for how long Marvel has been able to do it.

    Ultimately, though, I just choose to enjoy the films based upon what they are and not based upon what they could have been or what diehard fans had written in their heads for 30 years. That sounds like a dig. I don't mean it that way. I'm sure anyone who thinks about what happened has written their own future, especially since, as Mark Hammill points out, leaving the story once Luke achieves what he did is sort of like leaving James Bond once he becomes a 00 agent. The anticipation and length of time, it's all totally understandable, which is why I think nothing they could have done would have pleased everyone.

    I suppose this becomes a lot like politics where people choose a side and then dig in. I have my own reasons for why I enjoyed the trilogy, but I'm not going to argue that, as 3 films, they rival Back to the Future or something. Not even close.

    But for 3 movies that didn't need to be made and at a particular level were just "fun," I have an overall positive viewpoint.

    LIke I said, though, that is a minority opinion round these parts.

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    lovemachine, what you're describing it the lost art of nuance. I feel like these days everything is either the best thing ever or worst thing ever. When it comes to the final product....whether it's Van Halen III or The Rise of Skywalker, I try to focus on the aspects of it that I enjoy rather than where they disappoint.

    Where I struggle is the decision making process that led to it. Yeah, the sequel trilogy was decently successful and likely has more fans than the sentiments on the internet would lead you to believe. But this should not have been that hard an egg to crack, and proper planning could've pleased a wider audience. I guess it boils down to this: I'm bitter that a lack of planning and rushed productions led to divisive films that don't feel like a cohesive trilogy and have just bred discourse in the Star Wars fan base. I pin that mainly on Bob Iger, partially on Kathleen Kennedy.

    I miss December 2015 through November 2017. When The Force Awakens was released through just before The Last Jedi. Despite some cries of TFA rehashing ANH, the franchise and thus the fandom was on a positive trajectory with tremendous momentum. That's the biggest loss, to me.

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    I agree with Jedi (our Jedi). I was so excited after the Force Awakens. I thought Disney had done the smart thing and hit the reset button on the Skywalker Saga. I think it would have been smart to follow the model/trajectory of the original trilogy. In the process, we get to see the torch passed from our heroes to a worthy trio (Rey, Finn, and Poe), a new sidekick droid BB-8), and a superb villain in need of redemption (Kylo Ren). It was all there for the making and they took a dump in the bed.
    =VH=

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    I hear what you are saying LM, but for me personally, I find nothing redeemable about TLJ or ROS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi McFly View Post
    lovemachine, what you're describing it the lost art of nuance. I feel like these days everything is either the best thing ever or worst thing ever. When it comes to the final product....whether it's Van Halen III or The Rise of Skywalker, I try to focus on the aspects of it that I enjoy rather than where they disappoint.

    Where I struggle is the decision making process that led to it. Yeah, the sequel trilogy was decently successful and likely has more fans than the sentiments on the internet would lead you to believe. But this should not have been that hard an egg to crack, and proper planning could've pleased a wider audience. I guess it boils down to this: I'm bitter that a lack of planning and rushed productions led to divisive films that don't feel like a cohesive trilogy and have just bred discourse in the Star Wars fan base. I pin that mainly on Bob Iger, partially on Kathleen Kennedy.

    I miss December 2015 through November 2017. When The Force Awakens was released through just before The Last Jedi. Despite some cries of TFA rehashing ANH, the franchise and thus the fandom was on a positive trajectory with tremendous momentum. That's the biggest loss, to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by VH1986 View Post
    I agree with Jedi (our Jedi). I was so excited after the Force Awakens. I thought Disney had done the smart thing and hit the reset button on the Skywalker Saga. I think it would have been smart to follow the model/trajectory of the original trilogy. In the process, we get to see the torch passed from our heroes to a worthy trio (Rey, Finn, and Poe), a new sidekick droid BB-8), and a superb villain in need of redemption (Kylo Ren). It was all there for the making and they took a dump in the bed.
    As much as JJ likes hitting beats and Rian prefers subverting expectations, it did sort of hit a giant beat when Rey visits a hermit Jedi in a far off world who doesn't want to train her at first. You could really argue that both ways, that he subverted expectations my making Luke like Obi-wan and Yoda, or you could argue that he followed the Empire beat pretty plainly.

    Here is where I think Disney missed the mark, and it almost always seems this is where marks are missed--characters. They sort of understood it in that the Millennium Falcon is a character in and of itself, but ultimately people tune in because of characters. People don't tune in weekly to shows for years on end for the plot. They tune in for the characters.

    In hindsight, to have no Luke in the first and no Han in the final 2 (save a small appearance) was NOT going to satisfy fans even if you believe that is the best thing for story. They may have left being fans of Finn and/or Poe and/or Rey, but they came for Luke, Han, Leia, and Chewbacca. You probably could have gotten away with Luke, at the beginning, as he was portrayed in TLJ if he hadn't died. Maybe he is weakened and near death, but if he lived to kick some ass in ROS and died in some other way, people would probably be okay with that arc because it hits the Empire beats and then subverts them.

    Even if ultimately they thought it was a lesser story, people would have been happier spending more time with the characters they love.

    And I am going to zoom out a bit and say they missed this same mark with Galaxy's Edge. Again, the MF is a character and it's the "castle" of the land, but that's...it. It's supposed to be this old school smuggler's haven, but there is almost NONE of the original trilogy in the land. They easily could've folded some of it in...old wanted posters for Han, a crumbling Vader statue, etc.

    And it's likely why I have heard, reliably, they are seriously considering ending the timeline of the land and throwing all Star Wars into that land, the original triology, prequels, sequels, even Mandalorian. Because people are drawn to the characters.

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    I am not the biggest SW fan out there. But I did enjoy the films immensely when I was younger. Who didn't?

    So I was really caught up in the nostalgia of TFA when it came out. That trailer turned this 44 year old (at the time) into a kid again. lol Yeah, TFA was a satisfying, yet safe, return to the saga. Credit Abrams. Biggest grossing film of all time, domestically. However, only a tease of Luke at the end? Come on. But, man, did that create some anticipation for...

    The Last Jedi: Naturally, I'd be going to see TLJ when that came out. Enjoyed the scenes with Luke and Rey. Overall, though, WTF? I was actually looking forward to see what Rian Johnson would do in a SW film. Well, that backfired.

    When ROS came out, I was not interested. Ordered it for rental at home and was disappointed. Just a clusterfuck.

    For the record, I loved Rogue One and enjoyed Solo. And The Mandalorian is awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I hear what you are saying LM, but for me personally, I find nothing redeemable about TLJ or ROS.
    TLJ is shot beautifully. The Force connections between Rey and Kylo are amazingly done and were a great concept. Yoda was a wonderful moment. The throne room scene and the other plot threads coming to a head were brilliantly timed. And I loved the subversion of killing Snoke at this point in the story - just wish it had paid off better in the long run.

    TROS expands well on the Force connections between Rey and Kylo. It did the best job it could with the Carrie Fisher situation. Lightspeed skipping was fun. Ben Solo's redemption had so much promise, but was too promptly taken away.

    That's it for me. A post about my critiques of these two would be significantly longer.

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