It's not Dave or the Grave

[JAYMONSTER]

I think it's time we all stop using the saying,
"It's Dave or The Grave" or even a return of Sammy for that matter...I think Ed's heard so much of this crap that it's got him hung up on it and he'd rather disappear from music entirely than to apologize to Sammy or tolerate the middle-age, adolescent antics of Roth...

I'm sure part of him is also saying that "if my fans love me so much then why don't they understand that I don't want to work with Roth again."

I realize everybody probably would understand if he'd just talk but I think he's very gunshy of the media. He's not a public speaker and usually everything he says gets misconstrued and turned around to make him look like an asshole.

Sure, VH3 was a disaster...In my opinion - that wasn't due to the lack of Roth or Hagar. For that matter - it wasn't even Cherone really...

I think Ed just got too far away from doing what he has always done best which is play kick ass guitar sounds and solos over the top of fairly simple melodies.In essence, he tried to stretch his art way too far and it fell short of reaching the common person's ears. It's the RUSH theory...Great musicians but the everyday Joe Blow don't get it. I (for one) saw this starting on "F.U.C.K." and continued on through "Balance" (both - which I thought were great projects - but I'm a musician)but you could see where Eddie stopped writing tunes that were going to get airplay and started migrating towards stretching the art.

I think Sammy was able to contain some of that
but once he was gone and Cherone was in - there was noone left to reel Eddie back into the mainstream.

If Ed were to release an album of melodic tunes like he did with VH1, VH2, 1984, 5150 and OU812 -
I'd bet they would sell regardless of wether the singer was a nobody or an accomplished celebrity vocalist.

So, Ed - if you and Al are out there reading internet sites - take this one to heart...The strength of your tunes has always been what's made VH great - the singer was 2nd on the list.
Go and look back to your early days - backyard parties - where you were just playin' cover tunes...People loved it because they identified with the music but you gave it your own unique flavor.

Fans will buy your stuff again...Just find yourself someone who can help bridge the gap between your awesome talent and mainstream preferences. Someone who has their hands on the pulse of America and can help steer that creativity and talent into something that will land on the airwaves and MTV..You've got a whole new generation of buyers that are starved for some great music with good melodies and hooks.

Don't give up....The only difference between winners and losers is that winners keep getting back up when they get knocked on their ass - and they always, always, always - FIND A WAY TO WIN.

Peace

[subway]

Very good points!!

I wish we could get more analyitical
posts like this one!!

[Mario VH]

I agree with subway, great post. In the end it comes down to what will make Ed happy. If it can't work with Dave or Sam so be it. Let's just make some music regardless.

[Von Coolio]

Man, it's refreshing to see some optimism around here!! I couldn't agree more with you gents!

I hope that the VH brothers are actually getting back to it -- we need some new VH, yesterday!

Great post, Jaymonster!

[Majestic]

I agree with you, although I would like a quickie reunion tour with Dave, maybe some new tracks with Dave & also Same for Best Of Volume 2.

And then.....RIGHT BACK INTO THE STUDIO to record some ground-breaking new tunes with a new lead singer/singers.

[Lou]

Yeah, it doesn't matter who's singing, Van Halen has always been Eddie by himself.

[muffdiver]

right on.....

[badkaraoke]

Fans will buy your stuff again...Just find yourself someone who can help bridge the gap between your awesome talent and mainstream preferences. Someone who has their hands on the pulse of America and can help steer that creativity and talent into something that will land on the airwaves and MTV..You've got a whole new generation of buyers that are starved for some great music with good melodies and hooks.

Some interesting comments!

Good post and very realistic. Some people need to stop living for the future THEY want to see and admit that not everyone views things the way they do. It's not their career, after all.

bk

[AlexFan]

If everything in 1996 actually played out the way Roth tells it, I think they should make good and do at least an album with him. It would be the right thing to do in an "ideal" world....to make right the situations in which you have wronged others.

Go easy on me BK, but after all VH has been through and tried that 3rd singer. I have to wonder if it isn't, in fact, DAVE OR THE GRAVE. The fans in 1996 were pissed when VH pulled the rug out from under them. I know I was. I tried to be optimistic about Cherone, but even Eddie's lack of real confidence and enthusiasm when it first came out make me think it wasn't going to work at all. It didn't. I know that the 4th singer could be a reality, but VH has to really get someone that can breathe new life into the VH brothers. Again, I apologize, but I do think that Roth could do some great music with them, only if all parties would pull their heads out of their butts. The two songs from the BOV1 were great songs in my opinion. It seems like Eddie had some neat, fresh, very VH sounding songs put together. Roth did his thing and didn't go out of his range like he attempted to do on DLR band.
Look, Eddie and Gary seemed to be great friends and "musical soulmates", but the music ended up sounding Extreme-ish and lackluster on III. Maybe they need a little fire from Roth to get the blood pumping again. Or maybe someone else, but I am having a hard time figuring out who is free that would be a good fit for them.

[Van Haantje]

Originally posted by JAYMONSTER:
I think it's time we all stop using the saying,
"It's Dave or The Grave" or even a return of Sammy for that matter...I think Ed's heard so much of this crap that it's got him hung up on it and he'd rather disappear from music entirely than to apologize to Sammy or tolerate the middle-age, adolescent antics of Roth...

I'm sure part of him is also saying that "if my fans love me so much then why don't they understand that I don't want to work with Roth again."

I realize everybody probably would understand if he'd just talk but I think he's very gunshy of the media. He's not a public speaker and usually everything he says gets misconstrued and turned around to make him look like an asshole.

Sure, VH3 was a disaster...In my opinion - that wasn't due to the lack of Roth or Hagar. For that matter - it wasn't even Cherone really...

I think Ed just got too far away from doing what he has always done best which is play kick ass guitar sounds and solos over the top of fairly simple melodies.In essence, he tried to stretch his art way too far and it fell short of reaching the common person's ears. It's the RUSH theory...Great musicians but the everyday Joe Blow don't get it. I (for one) saw this starting on "F.U.C.K." and continued on through "Balance" (both - which I thought were great projects - but I'm a musician)but you could see where Eddie stopped writing tunes that were going to get airplay and started migrating towards stretching the art.

I think Sammy was able to contain some of that
but once he was gone and Cherone was in - there was noone left to reel Eddie back into the mainstream.

If Ed were to release an album of melodic tunes like he did with VH1, VH2, 1984, 5150 and OU812 -
I'd bet they would sell regardless of wether the singer was a nobody or an accomplished celebrity vocalist.

So, Ed - if you and Al are out there reading internet sites - take this one to heart...The strength of your tunes has always been what's made VH great - the singer was 2nd on the list.
Go and look back to your early days - backyard parties - where you were just playin' cover tunes...People loved it because they identified with the music but you gave it your own unique flavor.

Fans will buy your stuff again...Just find yourself someone who can help bridge the gap between your awesome talent and mainstream preferences. Someone who has their hands on the pulse of America and can help steer that creativity and talent into something that will land on the airwaves and MTV..You've got a whole new generation of buyers that are starved for some great music with good melodies and hooks.

Don't give up....The only difference between winners and losers is that winners keep getting back up when they get knocked on their ass - and they always, always, always - FIND A WAY TO WIN.

Peace

One word: WOW! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

PEACE! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

[yomamasofat]

Originally posted by JAYMONSTER:
I think it's time we all stop using the saying,
"It's Dave or The Grave" or even a return of Sammy for that matter...I think Ed's heard so much of this crap that it's got him hung up on it and he'd rather disappear from music entirely than to apologize to Sammy or tolerate the middle-age, adolescent antics of Roth...

I'm sure part of him is also saying that "if my fans love me so much then why don't they understand that I don't want to work with Roth again."

I realize everybody probably would understand if he'd just talk but I think he's very gunshy of the media. He's not a public speaker and usually everything he says gets misconstrued and turned around to make him look like an asshole.

Sure, VH3 was a disaster...In my opinion - that wasn't due to the lack of Roth or Hagar. For that matter - it wasn't even Cherone really...

I think Ed just got too far away from doing what he has always done best which is play kick ass guitar sounds and solos over the top of fairly simple melodies.In essence, he tried to stretch his art way too far and it fell short of reaching the common person's ears. It's the RUSH theory...Great musicians but the everyday Joe Blow don't get it. I (for one) saw this starting on "F.U.C.K." and continued on through "Balance" (both - which I thought were great projects - but I'm a musician)but you could see where Eddie stopped writing tunes that were going to get airplay and started migrating towards stretching the art.

I think Sammy was able to contain some of that
but once he was gone and Cherone was in - there was noone left to reel Eddie back into the mainstream.

If Ed were to release an album of melodic tunes like he did with VH1, VH2, 1984, 5150 and OU812 -
I'd bet they would sell regardless of wether the singer was a nobody or an accomplished celebrity vocalist.

So, Ed - if you and Al are out there reading internet sites - take this one to heart...The strength of your tunes has always been what's made VH great - the singer was 2nd on the list.
Go and look back to your early days - backyard parties - where you were just playin' cover tunes...People loved it because they identified with the music but you gave it your own unique flavor.

Fans will buy your stuff again...Just find yourself someone who can help bridge the gap between your awesome talent and mainstream preferences. Someone who has their hands on the pulse of America and can help steer that creativity and talent into something that will land on the airwaves and MTV..You've got a whole new generation of buyers that are starved for some great music with good melodies and hooks.

Don't give up....The only difference between winners and losers is that winners keep getting back up when they get knocked on their ass - and they always, always, always - FIND A WAY TO WIN.

Peace

Dude, Dave IS the grave. [img]graemlins/bounce.gif[/img]

[dropdeadlegs]

Originally posted by JAYMONSTER:

Go and look back to your early days - backyard parties - where you were just playin' cover tunes...People loved it because they identified with the music but you gave it your own unique flavor.
Peace

Don't agree with all your points but the above one hits it home for me. I'm not suggesting they do cover songs but no matter what song they did, it had a distinct Van Halenized sound to it. In fact, many early VH songs to me sounded like 50's and 60's music (simple melodies, great background harmonies, simple arrangements etc) but delivered at a very high volume. That's what made them unique.

[DLR'sCock]

DAVE OR THE GRAVE! [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]

[MAX]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock:
DAVE OR THE GRAVE! [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]

Amen to that, my fellow Rothbot! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]

[79th and Sunset]

Those VH bros. are gonna need Dave to pull them out of the grave !! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]