"Tell the Truth"

[Smokin' 5150]

I hope and pray for a reunion as much as any VH fan, but I think it is about time to admit to ourselves that perhaps the only thing that Sammy was honest about in the article is that VH has tried with DLR again and again and again and "VH can't do Roth."

Maybe it's personalities, excess emotional baggage, or just a divergence in musical direction. Perhaps Ed is still in solo record mode (like that piece of shit, vanity project called VHIII). Perhaps Dave still thinks he's where he was in 1984.

It is sad to say but maybe it's time to say goodbye to VH -- after all, in either form -- Van Halen or Van Hagar -- it died in 1996. Let it rest in piece.

Of course, then again, wouldn't it be great if Ed and the boys joined Dave onstage in Philly. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[Stuff No More]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smokin' 5150:
Of course, then again, wouldn't it be great if Ed and the boys joined Dave onstage in Philly. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never. Gonna. Happen.

Wishful thinking, yes, but your first idea was closer to the truth...

[tribb]

originally posted by smokin '5150:
I hope and pray for a reunion as much as any VH fan, but I think it is about time to admit to ourselves that perhaps the only thing that Sammy was honest about in the article is that VH has tried with DLR again and again and again and "VH can't do Roth."

What makes you think that's the only thing Sam was honest about?

[AxeSlinger84]

If all of this stuff about Eddie's ego, Roth stuck in 1984, and Hagar's own ego trip is true then it should all be a lesson to everyone else. Never act like these guys unless you wanna be perceived as a 9 year old immature brat. These guys need to act their age..

[Smokin' 5150]

I enjoy a lot of Sam Halen and his solo work. I saw Sammy's solo tour in support of "Marching to Mars" and throught it was one of the best around. And, yes, I own and enjoy the Cabo Wabo tequila.

But Sammy takes a little too much credit and neglects to mention how quickly and enthusiastically he joined in and even led the "anti-DLR" nonsense that came from the VH camp after Dave left (remember Sammy and his half-witted insults ained at Dave during the 5150 tour and his holding up all sorts of "Anti-Dave" banners (except for when he accidentally picked up one of the many pro-DLR banners).

I love Sammy and will certainly see the Cabo show when it rolls into FL, but seriously on a Sam & Dave tour -- who would be the opening act -- the singer whose stuff is still on the radio 20 years later or the singer whose stuff has disappeared? Sammy can plead the fifth on that.

[YankeeRose]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smokin' 5150:


I love Sammy and will certainly see the Cabo show when it rolls into FL, but seriously on a Sam & Dave tour -- who would be the opening act -- the singer whose stuff is still on the radio 20 years later or the singer whose stuff has disappeared? Sammy can plead the fifth on that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LMAO!!! Sammy's songs with VH have disapeared???! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Where did they go? [img]smilies/cry.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Actually the last three VH songs I have heard on the radio are Why Can't This Be Love, Runaround and When It's Love and that was in the last few days. NO van roth at all, just VAN HAGAR!!!! [img]smilies/thumb.gif[/img]

[DannyTheKid]

Argh... [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

The argument that Sammy OR Dave songs have disappeared is completely invalid. The fact is, both era songs are still played. It really ticks me off when either side (Yankee Rose, I know in this case that you weren't implying that Dave's stuff disappeared) tries to say the other's singer isn't played anymore. Obviously, both singers are played.

You &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; argue that one singer's songs are played more than the others, but unless you have statistics on total spins from a legit source, you're a goddamn quack.

What you hear on the radio in your market is contingent on so many factors that trying to make a significant conclusion based on your personal listening habits is absurd. In one market I lived in, we had three major "rock" stations. One was a generic Clear Channel mainstream rock station. Guessing, I'd say they played about a 50/50 split of Dave and Sam. Another station was an independent station (actually, owned by a regional chain) that was shooting for a slightly younger demo. When they did play VH, it was usually Sam. Finally, the other rock station was our local Howard Stern affiliate, which carried a harder tone throughout the day. They played mostly Dave. PLUS you have to factor in that Sam VH gets occasional play on adult contemporary stations.

So what can I conclude from my personal observations... NOTHING! I'm one guy, in one market, listening to a handful of stations.

Anecdotal evidence is acceptable, sometimes. But when you're trying to make a blanket statement about the radio play of a major label artist, try to pay at least some respect to reality.

Think of this note as a PSA of sorts. Now, at least the next person who writes a post equating a statement like, "Dude, I haven't heard a Sammy track in, like, months!!!" to "Sammy's stuff isn't played anymore!" knows that he's making a jackass of himself.

[Cabo Kid]

From one "kid" to another, great post DTK! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I doubt anyone who makes such outlandish claims about "they don't play Sammy songs anymore" or "they don't play any Dave songs anymore" really has taken the time to sit down and listen to a station for 24 hours straight for at least 4 days and log each song played. It's so easy to make blanket assumptions that one era is never played versus another, but unless you yourself are the Program / Music Director of your favorite station, you have NO IDEA whether or not any era of VH has been deleted from it's playlist.

Perception is reality...I've heard that one before too. But the reality is that most station playlists come from a music consultant and those lists are shared with hundreds of other stations in the country. Basically, depending on how far each station leans within the rock format will determine how much VH, for example, will be played.

However, on the majority of these rock playlists, there is an proportionate amount of BOTH Sammy and Dave era songs on them. Whether or not they come up regularly in a music rotation is up to the music scheduler, but I know that within these station's playlists ARE both DLR and SH songs.

I grow weary of these same topics all the time...especially the whole DLR vs. SH horsepuckey.

[billy007]

I don't think you can say it's completely invalid based on what our ears hear. I must admit, I don't listen to the radio a lot, but when I was do, for the longest time when I heard a Van Halen song, it would be one with David Lee Roth singing. Even on a rock block or whatever this station calls it where they play 3-4 songs by an artist, it was liable to be 4 Roth songs. Simple fact. That being said, I will note that recently I have been hearing more of the Hagar material on the radio lately - including "Feels So Good", which kind of surprised me and "Finish What Ya Started" and "Right Now" recently. Of course, before people said all the Roth songs meant Roth was in the band and now that Sammy's songs are on the upswing...well, I think I'll go with one person's theory that all the Roth tunes were to generate interest in the remasters and now the Hagar material remasters must be almost ready to go...

[DannyTheKid]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cabo Kid:


But the reality is that most station playlists come from a music consultant and those lists are shared with hundreds of other stations in the country. Basically, depending on how far each station leans within the rock format will determine how much VH, for example, will be played.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. And here's another example that you can probably back me up on: concert promotions.

Sammy was hitting a venue in my radio market recently as part of his Ten13 tour. Our local Clear Channel stations were promoting it. So, on the rock station, they spun a ton of "I Can't Drive 55", "One Way to Rock", VH, and... (most significantly, I would aruge) they played the hell out of "Let Sally Ride".

"Let Sally Ride" was (I believe) the second single from Ten13, so at that point the industry knew the album wasn't going to be a commercial smash. Yet they spun the hell out of Sally because it served the local market's interest of selling out the Hagar live show.

I would imagine the markets Dave hit on his recent tour experienced the same deal with his era of VH songs.

Just one example of the many conflicts of interest in the radio industry that can go a long ways towards biasing what you hear over the airwaves... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Cabo Kid]

That's it exactly.

Are you in radio too DTK? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Unless you live in STL or Missouri, you won't normally hear a TON of Sammy solo stuff. You'll hear it every so often, but not as often as on KSHE or the west coast stations....

UNLESS, as DTK so astutely pointed out, Sammy (or said artist a specific station is promoting) is appearing in concert within that station's listening area. It is perfectly normal (and expected) to "spike" that artist's music up until showtime. Once the show is said and done, that artist's music is then "rested" back into a normal rotation.

"Let Sally Ride" was the 2nd release. "Serious Juju" was first, then LSR then "Deeper Kinda Love" which stiffed to epic proportions. Too bad because I really liked 10-13 but I think Sam got shuffled to the back of the bus in preparation for a potential VH reunion tour. Rock stations didn't want to have a Sammy current tune taking the place of where they could insert a new VH tune. Sadly, the VH record never materialized and once it was revealed, 10-13 was really old news.

You WILL start hearing a lot of classic VH in the markets DLR is appearing to help hype the show. But, as Glenn has pointed out so accurately, no one is going to play solo DLR to sell tickets...even though his music MIGHT have had a chance to stand on their own. In that case, with hearing more DLR era tunes, you will undoubtedly NOT hear much if any Van Hagar. The object is to help tix to see DLR so why not play that for which he's best known?

[Smokin' 5150]

I did not realize that people had such strong feelings about which era is played more.

I don't feel the need to do a statistical analysis of the rock stations in my local market (South Florida) to be confident that Roth era is played more often down here that Hagar era is. Our two rock stations are WBGG - a classic rock station and WZTA - a harder edged rock station. Both forego the Sammy Stuff for classics such as Runnin' With the Devil, Ain't Talkin 'Bout Love, and Unchained. Do they slip in a Sammy tune now and again? Of course. But more often than not it's Dave era.

Call me a jackass, but I rather make assumptions from what I hear (that is called "empirical" data) than sit in a room cataloguing radio playlists with only a 5 gallon drum of Jergens and a sticky issue of the "Inside" to keep me company. "Jackass" beats "Jack Off" any day.

Speaking from my experience, I have not heard much of the Hagar era tunes since he left.

[DannyTheKid]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smokin' 5150:


Call me a jackass, but I rather make assumptions from what I hear (that is called "empirical" data) than sit in a room cataloguing radio playlists with only a 5 gallon drum of Jergens and a sticky issue of the "Inside" to keep me company. "Jackass" beats "Jack Off" any day.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey now! A reaction! I had that coming. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I'm not saying you should undertake the study, dude. I'm saying you should opt to close your trap rather than make sweeping generalizations based on your daily listening.

"Empirical" evidence is limited by the same factors that its proponents like best... it's personal. So, basing a hypothesis on what you hear is only valid for people who share the characteristics common to your experience.

So, what you could've said is this:

Based on what I hear on BGG and ZTA, Dave is played significantly more than Sammy in southern Florida.

I'm not calling you out because I have really strong feelings about the radio play of the various eras. I'm calling you out because I hate passive aggressive posts. You started out all, "Hey, Sam is cool in my book" and ended up implying he was a half-wit and declaring his radio play to be dead.

I realize you can like a guy's music while still maintaining he's a half-wit, but the way I see it, you were just looking to get a rise out of the people here who like SammyVH.

So I obliged.

[JWS_5150]

The Roth to Hagar ratio on the radio here is at least 20:1. I haven't heard a Van Hagar song on the radio since the end of August, I believe.

[AllSoupNoFish]

Man, I hate to be negative, but I always gotta laugh when one poster uses a "big" word and the reply sounds like a college thesis. Suddenly, I'm back in English class.......