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  1. #1
    Hot For Teacher
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    03.02.12 @ 08:44 AM
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    Now i know this is a tense argument here, but i am merely giving a perspective, but i can see why both sides have their truths. Just sharing and offering for discussion.
    Would we call the Rolling Stones the Rolling Stones without Mick Jagger?
    Would we call Aerosmtih Aerosmtih if Tyler left the band?
    I know many will bring up ACDC. But to many hardcore fans, ACDC is the band with Scott.
    Van Halen changed when Roth left. That is a testament to his influence.
    By simply stating he is replacable, you undermine what he gave to VH. I read somewhere that Roth was responsible for the Chorus of Panama, that is just one example. What is the problem in Calling the roth years "Van Halen", and the hagar years something else? By me doing so, it doesnt mean i am saying the roth years were better. just distinguishing their differences. By calling the Hagar years Van Halen, you by default have to call the Gary years Van Halen, which was just as different compared to the previous eras. That clearly shows that with every lead singer change, the band's direction also changes. So when someone says it doesnt matter who sings, i have to respectfully disagree. I realize we all have our own beliefs on this, but i would like to debate this respectfully, to get all of your points.
    Only adventures that I regret are the ones I missed - DLR

  2. #2
    Top Of The World
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    Favorite VH Album

    Women and Children First
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    Could This Be Magic
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Good post. I respect what you're trying to do, and I hope people share that respect by responding thoughtfully.

    Here's the way I look at it:

    VH clearly changed when Hagar and Cherone took over vocals, but the end product was still heavily derivative of Roth VH. The VH sound evolved from the first album to 1984, and that direction continued from 5150 through Balance, and leaped (forwards or backwards, who's to say?) again when VHIII came out.

    Honestly, I think VH went pop with Roth on 1984 and just continued that trend for the remainder of their albums. That momentum had already started before Roth left. And Roth's solo stuff (initially) was very pop. California Girls was lots of things, but it wasn't heavy like his earlier VH.

    So, to summarize:

    If VH as a collective band had been heading down a road towards a pop sound, and that direction continued over the course of three singers, I think you can call all three incarnations "Van Halen" and not disrespect anyone.

    I mean, people consider themselves fans of "early Metallica" or "late Metallica", and the sound changed without a high profile departure like Roth (until recently... didn't their bassist leave?).

    People consider themselves fans of "early Aersomith" or "late Aerosmith", but again the sound changed without a lineup change.

    It's okay to only like a portion of a band's work, and you don't have to rename the band when it hits different eras.
    DtK<br /><br /><i>"<b>Do</b> something."</i>

  3. #3
    Hot For Teacher
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    03.02.12 @ 08:44 AM
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    DannytheKid - hreat response. Like, i said, i can understand both sides, but just decided to share this for discussion. I like your point about how Vh went pop with 1984. I agree, but i am not so sure this would have continued had Roth stayed. That in itself is a debate. Consider Roth's Eat Em and Smile. Many considered that to be the true follow up Vh album, since it was harder then 5150. So i sometimes wonder if Vh would have gone as pop as they did with Hagar had Roth stayed.
    Only adventures that I regret are the ones I missed - DLR

  4. #4
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    Donor

    For me, it's all Van Halen. If the album cover says Van Halen, it's Van Halen. That doesn't mean that everything is as good as everything else, and I break the music down in terms of eras as well.

    I've asked this before, but why don't I see people on here coming up with clever new names for other groups, like post-Killers Iron Maiden? And I don't buy the instant arguement that it was with Bruce Dickinson that they made their mark. While I believe they were a better band with Bruce, the fact remains that they were conceived and got signed with Paul DiAnno on vocals, so why don't we call the second version Iron Dickinson? Even when Bruce left and Blaze Bailey joined, I still considered it to be Iron Maiden even though I had absolutely zero interest in what they put out.

    Of course VH sounded different once Dave left, and that is partly a testament to Dave's importance to the original VH. But Dave chose to leave and Eddie is the heart and soul of the song writing of Van Halen (for better or for worse). Therefore, I have no problem that they've continued to use the Van Halen name.

    And why doesn't anyone have a problem with the fact that Dave is touring with the DLR Band, when the members ARE NOT the same members who recorded the DLR Band album? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

  5. #5
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
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    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
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    Donor

    I think I'll send this over to the Opinions Forum. It's a familiar topic, but the intelligent manner of the original post has me hoping it'll be better than a typical Sam vs. Dave debate.

    Keep it going!!!! [img]smilies/thumb.gif[/img]

 

 

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