Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: 50 50 Dave

  1. #1
    Atomic Punk Bob_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.18.01
    Posts
    7,207
    Last Online

    12.13.11 @ 02:09 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


    Donor

    Anyone have an opinion or explanation as to why the first half of Roth's solo career was exceptional and the second half fizzled.

    Crazy From The Heat, EEAS, and Skyscraper each sold over 2 million copies each. After that it was mostly down hill.

    Anyone have the sales figures after Skyscraper? Yeah, Yeah, I know sales don't matter tell that to The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Springsteen, Stones, etc.. and they will gladly give all their money back.

    Anyway back to the original ?. My answer is the constant change in musicians particularly the loss of Vai after Skyscraper.

    Discuss [img]smile.gif[/img]

  2. #2
    Top Of The World baddmann28's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.11.02
    Age
    46
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    149
    Favorite VH Album

    '78 -'96 baby!
    Favorite VH Song

    Drop Dead Legs... Enough said
    Last Online

    04.08.12 @ 05:51 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    A lot of artists have simular scenerios. Once they prove themselves they either get more musical control from the record company and fall on their face because a second idea isn't added or they get lazy, thinking my name will sell x amount of records on it's own, lets can it and tour. (VH111 for example).Although you can get away with this once, twice is hard. Everyone can say what they want about production, but if the performace and the songs are half assed, nothing will save it. Did Dave fall into either I don't know because I don't know the man personally, but the fact that the times are a changin. We are now the old folgies guys, face it. Doesn't make the music kick any less ass, but we and they aren't cool anymore outside of our own worlds.
    Those that say money cannot buy hapiness don't know where to shop.

  3. #3
    Top Of The World
    Join Date
    12.12.01
    Posts
    188
    Last Online

    11.15.09 @ 04:17 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    I think he got syphilis from the ho's [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

  4. #4
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.16.99
    Posts
    16,192
    Last Online

    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 8 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    Dave really jumped on the rock video thing, and that has a bad habit of making a person appear to be all show.

    That is what made Van Halen so perfect, you had the ultimate pure musician and the ultimate pure showman. To anyone who has payed attention, there was plenty of bleeding across the boundaries, meaning that EVH brought a level of showmanship to the party while Dave took all the credit, and Dave brought a level of musicianship to the party while EVH got all the credit (editor's not; it's my belief that the voice is an instrument, therefore I believe that the singer in also a musician).

    But to the general public, there was no need or desire to look below the surface; Dave was the clown, and that's all they expected out of him. Given that, it was really only a matter of time before he fell out of favor. He became like a supermodel where once the lines got too noticeable, it was time to be cast aside for the next breed of pretty.

    Dave had way more ability deep down than the ability to be a 1 dimensional poster. The proof of that for me is A Little Ain't Enough, which is a FAR better record than either of EEAS or Skyscraper. But by that time, Dave wasn't the flavor anymore. His receding hairline at the time surely played a part in how he was perceived also; when your image is that of a studly rock god, hair loss is critical.

    And I don't care what kind of album Dave put out in 1994 and 1998, it wasn't going to sell a lot of copies.

    I agree that part of the problem too was the revolving door of musicians; or more specifically, Dave's refusal to make his band a group of equals. It probably makes perfect sense coming off of how his tenure with VH ended, but Dave should have known that musicians are going to work better and stay longer when they have a say, and are considered equals. Dave wanted them to be sidemen, and off went Sheehan and then off went Vai.

    Again, in the short term, I think their leaving was great because ALAE was better than the work produced by Dave with Vai and Sheehan, but I think a lot of that had to do with Dave putting down his guard and allowing Bob Rock to help create something.

    Skyscraper and DLR Band lead to the inevitable conclusion that Dave isn't a record producer. He's an ideas man, and needs to leave the nuts and bolts of getting his ideas on tape to professionals.

  5. #5
    Banned!
    Join Date
    05.09.02
    Location
    vancouver, bc
    Posts
    1,375
    Last Online

    02.18.11 @ 08:09 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    repitition of the same old crap.

    that whitemen dressed as chicks bit got real old real fast.

    you cant sell 80's shit forever, gotta move on.

  6. #6
    Eruption
    Join Date
    02.07.00
    Posts
    786
    Last Online

    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Nice analysis, Glenn.

    Only thing I would add to that, though you've sort of said it too, is that there's something very Vaudeville-ian and P.T. Barnum-ish about Dave. People ate it up back in the day -- I think most just took it at face value, and a minority understood that it was just rock and roll circus and Dave was winking at us.

    The background mood of popular music changed so much in the 90's that Dave's way of entertaining fell out of favor. I think the people who took his shtick at face value began to think he was/is a fool, and the smaller minority remained. That latter group obviously dwindles more and more every day.

    And while I give Sam a lot of shit, I'll give him some credit. Despite what he claims, he has zigged and zagged and re-invented himself several times. He started out as a meat and potatoes white-trash butt-rocker, wheeling out a Trans Am onto his stage, wearing jumpsuits and shit like that. Then he briefly became Mr. Patriot around the time of VOA; this was the time of Rocky IV, Ronnie Reagan and the USSR as the evil empire. There's a dopey picture of Sam looking like a warrior parachuting in front of the White House or something like that. Then he became a very vanilla, corporate rocker during the Van Hagar years. After either stealing from the band or getting a general screwing by the Van Heinekens (depends who you believe), he became this mellow, Hawaiian-Mexican tropical shirt wearing pot smoking beach bum Jimmy Buffet Buddah guy.

    In this way, Sam reminds me of Madonna.

    Dave tried to re-invent himself with YFLM and Vegas; YFLM sold about as well as a Sam album, and the Vegas thing was obviously unsuccessful. Dave obviously isn't good at re-inventing himself. I think that's part of his problem too.

    [ December 07, 2002, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Sweet William ]

  7. #7
    Hot For Teacher
    Join Date
    07.14.02
    Location
    TXUSA
    Posts
    263
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Last Online

    01.02.15 @ 09:39 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Holy friggin hell,
    a thread with intelligent thoughtful commentary that hasn't degenerated into fat/bald one liners yet!

    That is what made Van Halen so perfect, you had the ultimate pure musician and the ultimate pure showman.
    That is the best distillation of the entire Van Halen phenomenon I have ever heard. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

  8. #8
    Beloved Glenn's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.16.99
    Posts
    16,192
    Last Online

    02.13.15 @ 08:56 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 8 Times in 1 Post


    Donor

    Originally posted by Sweet William:
    Dave tried to re-invent himself with YFLM and Vegas; YFLM sold about as well as a Sam album, and the Vegas thing was obviously unsuccessful. Dave obviously isn't good at re-inventing himself. I think that's part of his problem too.
    Maybe part of Dave's problem is that he abandons things too quickly. YFLM wasn't huge, and Vegas wasn't either, but if that was a direction he believed in (and I have no idea if he did or not), he should have been willing to see it through for a longer period of time.

    Again, as I said before, he wasn't going to sell a lot of records regardless of what type of material he did in 1998, so his best bet would have been to go where his heart was.

    If you're going to reinvent yourself, you have to be willing to put the time in and see it through, knowing that there may be lean times. There are peaks and valleys for any artist, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

    Funny though, Dave's most consistent artistic movement in a long time has been in the last few years. If he's reinvented himself this time as the party boy former VH singer, he's certainly seeing it through. And I hate it, so what the fuck do I know! LOL

    The further Dave goes down this road, the less need there is for him to release anything. If he's playing VH gigs over and over, there's really no need for him to spend the money to put together any new music. And that sucks from this fans point of view.

    Dave needs to come to grips with the fact that his days of selling a lot of records are over. And so what?? That doesn't mean his days of putting out, and supporting, quality material have to be over.

    If I'm a Sammy fan, I have no problem with him selling only 7000 records in the first week of release. Sammy has released several albums in the past few years. How awesome would it be if Dave had released 2 or 3 records since DLR Band??? I'd LIKE them to sell, but at the end of the day I don't care. I've got quality albums in my collection that sold 10 million copies; and I've got albums that are just as good that sold 10,000 copies. It's the art that matters to me as a listener, not the record sales.

    Where is Dave's DVD?? It's his artistic vision circa 2001/2002. Doesn't it suck that it isn't commercially released so that his fans can judge it in its entirety? That's what an artist does, takes a specific period of time and shows us where he's at.

    I get the impression that Dave believes this too, but doesn't walk the walk. And he's been fond of saying that Eddie Van Halen is guilty of wasting time. Dave might want to accuse himself of the same thing.

  9. #9
    Eruption
    Join Date
    04.06.02
    Age
    39
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Posts
    879
    Favorite VH Album

    VH1,FW,1984,5150,FUCK,ADKOT
    Favorite VH Song

    changes every week,love em all
    Last Online

    12.15.16 @ 02:14 AM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 18 Times in 9 Posts

    Agree to every fucking single word, Glenn! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

  10. #10
    Good Enough z28girl's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.23.00
    Age
    55
    Location
    Oldsmar, FL
    Posts
    1,568
    Favorite VH Album

    Women & Children First
    Favorite VH Song

    The Full Bug
    Last Online

    10.12.15 @ 05:43 PM
    Likes
    2
    Liked 9 Times in 2 Posts

    I also want to add that the record companies have pretty much abandoned many acts in favor of the flavor of the moment. Skyscraper was a decent bunch of songs, but it didn't get much airplay and no promotion at all. It's increasingly hard for acts to express their musical interests or forge in a new direction these days. The record companies prefer a cookie cutter approach where the beat of the moment is duplicated as many times as possible to generate as much money as possible. I'm all in favor of more artists just striking out on their own, creating their own labels, using the Internet, etc.
    Could this be magic?

  11. #11
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.02.99
    Age
    46
    Location
    Somewhere Near LA
    Posts
    68,728
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    12.16.17 @ 02:48 PM
    Likes
    1,265
    Liked 11,592 Times in 4,941 Posts

    Dave's act just wasn't as fashionable in the 90's as it was in the 80's, simple as that. His songs certainly didn't have the fire his earlier solo efforts had, nor even close to anything he did with Van Halen. Combination of a lot of things, but music fans are fickle and times just change.
    Webmaster
    VHLinks.com - Your Van Halen Internet Resource Guide
    http://www.vhlinks.com

    JamToThis.com
    Audio/Video Trading Community
    Tons of Van Halen!

  12. #12
    5150 Crown Royal's Avatar
    Join Date
    12.05.01
    Posts
    581
    Last Online

    12.07.17 @ 01:08 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 10 Times in 5 Posts

    After Dave left Van Halen, everyone thought that new Dave would sound like VH, an extension if you will. But, eventually everyone came to realize that it wasn't. The product that you had left was not very good. DLR was not VH, not matter what Dave thought.

    By that time the entire musical climate was changing. The second half of solo Dave was all about timing. The timing sucked. After that it was Vegas. The rest is History.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk hain23x's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.04.00
    Location
    way down yonder in Louisville
    Posts
    7,791
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Mean Street
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 03:59 PM
    Likes
    36
    Liked 555 Times in 251 Posts

    Roth needs to go take an acting class and get him a small film role in a film

    --cut the hair and let it go back to it's natural color.

    --take an acting class

    --stay away from any drug that speeds you up

    --and make a blues record!
    Eat Us and Smile!

  14. #14
    Atomic Punk hain23x's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.04.00
    Location
    way down yonder in Louisville
    Posts
    7,791
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Mean Street
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 03:59 PM
    Likes
    36
    Liked 555 Times in 251 Posts

    oh yeah,

    Sammy's fat
    DLR is bald and fried on speed

    NOW this thread is perfect! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
    Eat Us and Smile!

  15. #15
    5150 Crown Royal's Avatar
    Join Date
    12.05.01
    Posts
    581
    Last Online

    12.07.17 @ 01:08 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 10 Times in 5 Posts

    Originally posted by hain23x:
    Roth needs to go take an acting class and get him a small film role in a film

    --cut the hair and let it go back to it's natural color.

    --take an acting class

    --stay away from any drug that speeds you up

    --and make a blues record!
    I would love to have an all DLR pure grassroots Blues album.

    Somehow can just picture dark rooms, smoke filled wicked guitar playing with Roth's pipes just howling!!

    [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Hey All You Dave-Heads: Does The Sam and Dave Tour Make Sammy Cool Now?
    By theodore templeman in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04.10.02, 06:08 AM
  2. Hey All You Dave-Heads: Does The Sam and Dave Tour Make Sammy Cool Now?
    By theodore templeman in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04.06.02, 08:06 PM
  3. Can dave, or will dave sing Sammy songs???
    By pkjr in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 01.29.01, 10:38 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10.30.00, 05:11 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •