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  1. #1
    Little Dreamer
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Over at the IGN boards some of the guys there are arguing that John Petrucci is a 'greater' guitar player than Eddie. Thats including influence,creativity,etc. Here is the link,you have to be a paying member,if your not,I'll post everyones reply so far.

    http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=29675632&page=2

    It started out as a Dream Theater question till I posted this...
    ----------------------------------

    BODINE123-Buy Yngwie Malmsteens instructional video to learn sweeps and arpeggios,its very informative,but alot of that stuff on his video is quite advanced so be warned.

    Also, I think alot of people here over-rate Petrucci's abilities. He's a good guitarist,but not on the level of Satriani,Vai,EVH,Malmsteen etc...
    ---------------------
    GOLIATH-hehehehhe Vai=God with a Guitar
    malmsteen is fast, but his style can get boring pretty easy.
    ---------------------
    HYPOCRITICAL-"Satriani,Vai,EVH,Malmsteen"

    i definetely disagree, I am positive petrucci is better then EVH. I think your just biased with eddy cause he is your favorite guitarist just like i am with John.

    Petrucci can really be all over the place in his songs, but if you listen to fatal tragedy it should show you just how good that guy is.

    Also some of his stuff on liquid tension experiment is amazing.

    He is also coming out with a solo cd very soon, so I really think he is going to shine on this.

    He's played with satriani on a G3 tour before as well, and impressed just as much as satch.

    Malmsteen is very fast, but is probably the least versatile of all of those guys, his stuff always sounds the same, and its pretty much just arpeggios.

    And i really don't think Eddy van halen is that great. Some of his stuff kicks ass (like eruption) but some of it really isn't that special.
    -------------------------
    DEATHBYCANCER-
    "Also, I think alot of people here over-rate Petrucci's abilities."

    Well, I think you just suck.

    I'm not going to go in to detail I why I think you suck either, because, well frankly, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
    --------------------------
    THALAZYMAN-Van Halen isn't in the same ballpark as Satriani, petrucci, and vai.
    --------------------------
    BODINE123-Check out the 1997 guitar player magazine of the Greatest 100 guitarist. Its probably the best list I've ever seen. The reason for this is that they dont actually rank them by number(which is impossible)but by category(not sure if the other ones do it like this). Petrucci is nowhere to be found,why?,he's not original. He has done nothing for the instrument and has put out nothing influential,I know its hard to hear,but its true. He may be technically great,but there are better. He may have good tone,but there are better. He may be fast,but there are faster,etc etc. Like the guy said,he's a jack of all trades,he does everything pretty good,nothing great,nothing influential,nothing special.

    He cant be compared to Vai,Satrianni,EVH,Hendrix,Clapton,Blackmore,Malmst een,Di Meola,Holdsworth etc... why? Just think about it,each and every person I just listed broght something new and fresh to the scene. I cant believe some of you would put Petrucci in the same league as those guys,amazing. If you were to do a 'History of Rock Guitar'(actually it has already been done,and made into a TV special) I can guarantee you that there is no mention of Petrucci. Watch the movie and read the books,edjucate yourselves on the instrument before posting.

    Petrucci belongs with guitarists such as Jake E. Lee,George Lynch,Akira Takasaki,Warren DiMartini,etc.. Great guitarist who have put out some great music,but have done nothing to push the genre forward. Technically these guys are incredible(especially Takaski) but they are doing things guys have already done.

    ''Malmsteen is very fast, but is probably the least versatile of all of those guys, his stuff always sounds the same, and its pretty much just arpeggios''

    Malmsteen is not on every 'top guitar' list because of speed,quite frankly there are faster players out there. He is there for bringing classical influence to metal. Next to EVH he was the second most influential guitarist in the 80's. I do agree his sound is stale,but his knowledge of music and theory is truely astounding and next to BB King he has the best vibrato in the biz.

    ''I definetely disagree, I am positive petrucci is better then EVH. I think your just biased with eddy cause he is your favorite guitarist just like i am with John. ''

    Wow,I am just speachless....Please,with all of your knowledge on the guitar,list what Pettruci has done and who he has influenced,since he sounds sooooo much differently than anyone else. Please do,I really want to hear this...

    Citizen Kane isnt the number 1 movie of all time for its entertainment value. Sure its a good movie,but its impact on all movies to come is what sets it apart,same goes for guitar and EVH,imo. Hendrix can also be included with this analogy.

    Remember,Eddie doesnt play like everyone else,everyone else plays like him. I want you guys to do some reasearch....Take a listen to the first Van Halen album.......done? Ok,please note that the album was made in 1978/79. Now,I want you to listen to every album or guitarist from 1977 on back. Ok,can ANY of you name a guitarist that even REMOTLY sounds like Eddie?? I'll save you some trouble,YOU CANT!! There is NO guitarist before that sounded or did anything like that! Now,listen to guitarist from 1979-2002,how many play like Eddie? THOUSANDS,MILLIONS! Every guitar player after VH1 sounded like Eddie. THATS why he is my favorite guitar player and is ALWAYS listed in any 'top 10 guitarist' list. Sorry,I cant say the same for Petrucci. I have to say,this is the only place I have ever seen that actually names Petrucci in peoples 'top 10' list. Every music school I've been to,magazine I've read,or documentary I've watched hasnt mentioned him anywhere,that seems funny to me.

    Yes,Van Halen is my favorite band,and EVH is my favorite guitar player. I've been playing guitar nearly all my life and next to Randy Rhoads he has influenced me more than anyone. But I am not naive to the fact that there are better musicians than Eddie,technically that is. There are teachers at Berkley,Guliard(sp),and USC that are technically LIGHT YEARS beyond EVH,Vai,Satrianni,Petrucci,Malmsteen,etc. But when choosing a great guitarist,technical ability is not the only factor.

    I'll reply to people who have something intellegent to say(and actually know something about guitar),not retarded flames and one sentance remarks like some of the people who replied to me.

    This is gonna be fun
    ---------------------------
    GOLIATH-I kind of Love this people who takes a magazine article like if it was their Bible.

    I may agree that Petrucci, hasnt add anything "New" to the Guitar, since almost everything is already done, but you know what is not his fault that VH, Malmsteen, Vai, Dimeola started playing guitar Years Before Him.

    So i think we should thank, Petrucci, Romeo, Whekpman and all these "new Guitar players" for keeping the instrument Alive and making new music for us to Enjoy.
    ---------------------------
    DEATHBYCANCER-What the **** do you know about the guitar?

    The only opinion you've had has been taken straight out of some cheap guitar magazine geared to sell to idiots who actually buy them. (I.E. - YOU)

    Wanna know what Petrucci's respected for? For being able to play and incorporate into his music a multitude of styles (Including his own). Take an Eddie Van Halen solo, all of them have tapping. It's what Eddie does, it's ALL that Eddie does. Yngwie Malmsteen? Harmonic Minor scale. He doesn't leave it.

    Now lets take a look at the "Under A Glass Moon" solo.. starts out sounding a little like Vai with the harmonics and the Vaish bends (accompanied with signature Petrucci tone), immediatly followed by a descending harmonic minor scale. A little Chuck Berry and some Petrucci originality and we've wrapped up the solo. Of course, the only reason this is impressive is because it flows together like one solo, not four. Petrucci deviates and utilizes many styles, not just finds one and sticks with it.

    As for you... I bet you don't even know all 7 modes. =x
    --------------------------
    GOLIATH-^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Preach it Broda!!!!!!!!!!!

    Wul Get!!!
    ---------------------------
    BODINE123-''I kind of Love this people who takes a magazine article like if it was their Bible.''

    Who's using it like a bible. Guitar 'lists' in magazines are a great BAROMETER to judge who is great. They incorperate guitarists from all over the music scene,not just from there favorite groups(like what goes on here). Those kind of lists have turned me on to guitarists that I would have never heard of before(Holdsworth,Hedges,etc),nice try though.

    ''So i think we should thank, Petrucci, Romeo, Whekpman and all these "new Guitar players" for keeping the instrument Alive and making new music for us to Enjoy.''

    I think you are taking my critisism of Petrucci as a negative,which it is not. My beef is how can you list him with some of the biggest legends in the industry. I've NEVER said 'Petruci sux0rs' or anything,he has great ability,but he is not a 'guitar god' so to speak. I have no problem with some of you saying he's your favorite,thats your opinion,but to say he belongs with some of the all-time greats is mind boggling.

    ''What the **** do you know about the guitar?''

    Thanks for the intellegent responce. But,if it makes you feel better,here is a brief bio. My parents bought me my first acoustic at age 6,due to the fact that they traveled alot. I played off an on till age 13 when I heard 'Over the Mountain' by Randy Rhoads for the first time,I fell in love with Ozzys first two albums(and Rhoads in particular) and begin to take lessons 3 times a week. I got my first guitar teaching job after school at 17 and taught for 5 years till I quit for financial reasons. I have had the opportunity of meating guitarists like George Lynch and have even had lunch with my former boss and Warren DiMartini. I've played in quite a few local bands,and have taught most of the guitarists in rival ones. And thats pretty much the meat and potatoes of my guitar career up to this point.

    ''Take an Eddie Van Halen solo, all of them have tapping. It's what Eddie does, it's ALL that Eddie does.''

    For someone who 'knows' about guitar I am surprised to hear you say this,considering Eddie made TWO HANDED HAMMER-ONS famous,not tapping(he did that to,to a minor extent). In your remark you talk about 'signature' stuff,well,two-handed hammer ons are Eddies signature,and he doesnt do them in ALL his solo's.

    You can thank Eddie right now for most of your guitars right now too,since he not only changed the way we PLAY the guitar,but our guitars itself.

    And I'll let you figure out what it is since you know so much about guitar history,its not a hard question.

    I know you poeple dont like lists,but take a look at this site . Now,be smart,and dont look at is written in stone,use it as a BAROMETER to measure by. Now,that site incorperates some 17 different lists and should give you a good indication of which guitarists are truely great and original in the rock community. Please count how many times Petrucci's name appears....

    I know you'll say 'Those lists dont mean ****',but the fact that his name doesnt appear once should tell you something....

    P.S. There was a list of the top 25 guitarists chosen by GUITARIST's(not writers/editors)and guess what,no Petrucci,I'll post the link if I can find it.

    Some of you want to turn this into a Petrucci vs. EVH thread to try and even up the argument with me,if you want to do that,post a new thread here to even up the argument since I'm posting on the 'unofficial Dream Theater board'.

    Should be fun,lol
    ------------------------

    And thats where its at so far,what are your thoughts on this rediculous comparison?

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk MikeL's Avatar
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    Donor

    My guitar hero can beat up your guitar hero. Who cares? Different people have different opinions.

  3. #3
    On Fire
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Hehe, that's wild.. I love Dream Theater and Petrucci is amazing, but I would never in a million years list him next to Ed, especially in terms of innovation, originality and influence..
    If I was to list every damn player that I have read In Guitar World Mag who said VH inspired and influenced them, we would have to dedicate a website to that!! Its obvious to know Vai, Satriani, Malmsteen, Rhoads, Lynch, Jake E. Lee, Hammett, Dimebag Darrell, Marty Friedman, Dweezil Zappa, Zakk Wykde and many others where influenced by VH. But think about those who arent so obvious? Dudes like Slash, Ty Tabor of King's X, Dave Navarro of Jane's Addiction, Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins, Jerry Cantrell of Alice in Chains, Trey Anastacio of Phish, Buckethead, Tom Morello of RAGE, Kerry King of Slayer and more!! They are all huge VH fans and have said VH inspired them tremendously..

    Add to that, as I have posted before, the newer school or rock, along with even the nu-metal guys. The guitar players from Incubus, Staind, Fear Factory, Godsmack, System of a Down, Fuel, The Deftones, Creed and more have ALL listed VH as an influence/inspiration!!!
    Some of these nimrods today forget just how large VH was and how genius the dude is..
    I saw Dream Theater in concert and they did a Van Halen's Mean Street live!! No shit, its even available on bootleg and mp3... it was pretty cool...

  4. #4
    Little Dreamer
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    this is my first post here so this is what I have to say. I myself am a huge DT fan, I've seen them twice this year, and the were absolutely amazing. But when I think about it and compare EVH to Petrucci technically wise, its petrucci all the way, and for very good reasons. He did attend berklee for a year which gives him an upper hand on theory. and to tell you the truth, DT was my answer to the long wait for VH. The first DT album I bought was Scenes from a memory, and I was hooked. Now as far as song ideas and such, there is no one like petrucci. never before have I heard such sweeping melodies. and not comparing him to the likes of vai and satriani is a huge understatement; petrucci is right with them, and that's why he went on the G3 tour this year. Now just because I am on petrucci's side of the court doesn't mean I'm knocking Eddie. Eddie was a very big influence for JP. Not only has DT covered mean streets but they also did runnin with the devil. But if you were to ask me who I thought was a better guitar player, I would truthfully answer Petrucci. And I'm a hardcore VH fan.

  5. #5
    Top Of The World
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    You know, i'm sure a lot of people who aren't convinced that EVH is possibly the greatest guitarist the world has ever known (I would think Hendrix, Clapton, Dimeola and Malmsteen are up there as well) HAVE NOT SEEN EVH LIVE...

    Sure, I haven't seen Hendrix live, i'm only 20 unfortunately, but i've seen and studied a lot of his live recordings...However, i've seen the G3 tour, I own a few Vai, Stariani AND Dream Theater cd's, and I must say, while these guys are technically proficient, it's a joke to compare them to EVH...

    Anybody with a brain pretty much lists Eddie Van Halen as the greatest overall guitarist of the last 30 years, and 75% of those people most likely think he's the best ever.

    My whole point is though, is when you stand front row at a VH concert, and you hear the first riff for unchained, one of the coolest and most ferocious riffs in hard rock history...and then minutes later, you are standing in front of a man with a cigarette hanging off the end of his guitar, with a huge smile on his face, while he absolutely nails the intro to Mean Street, one of the most fucked up things you'll ever see somebody do, you realize why he's the best ever...

    Name an influential song that one of those technical wizards has ever written?? Sure, they're fast, they're technical, but Eddie combines an amazing technical knowledge of the guitar, with feeling, emotion, varying styles, a neverending drive to take risks, awesome tone, a smile on his face, and...don't look now Malmsteen fans...SONGWRITING ABILITY...

    Eddie Van Halen has also sold MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF ALBUMS, AFFECTED MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, and is not only amazing, but fronts one of the greatest hard rock bands in history, and most likely the greatest american rock band ever.

    It's really no contest

    [ November 04, 2002, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: bizzatch ]

  6. #6
    Baluchitherium dirtymovies's Avatar
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    11.12.17 @ 09:04 PM
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    Donor

    Petrucci is an AWESOME guitarist!

  7. #7
    Baluchitherium Lead Synth's Avatar
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    Donor

    They're all awesome in their own ways. I mean, I love Satch. But he's not Eddie. Petrucci, well, my ears don't lie, he's great. But he's not Eddie either. There will only be one Eddie.
    www.mayakuper.com

    "VH rocked Staples like a foot rocks grapes in Naples." - mistere

  8. #8
    Unchained
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    I love DT so don't get me wrong when I say this: DT wears it's influences a little to much. When I was listening to Metroplis II I was thinking
    1. What a great technical band
    and
    2. Here's a part that sounds like Rush, Here's an Iron Maiden part etc etc.

    When I listen to EVH I hear a guy with a sound all his own. Odviously Eddie had influences but he managed to take it to the next level and form his own thing. From what I've heard of DT they just don't do that in my view.
    "Right Now.....Mike is thinking about a solo project."<br /><br />"Victory has a thousand fathers. Defeat is an orphan."

  9. #9
    Romeo Delight
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    10.27.06 @ 08:28 AM
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    Influence is a relative thing. Ed has influenced more people by far. We must remeber the very different musical approaches between Van Halen and Dream Theater Van Halen was always something that had alot of mainstream appeal. You can't say that about Dream Theater, they choose to be progressive rock/metal. Prog is not something that is pushed in the mainstream anymore, so by that train of thought of course Petrucci isn't going to influence as many as Ed. See to a lot of prog fans, petrucci is the Eddie Van Halen. I bet if you were to ask alot of prog fans who their their influences are, they would probably list Petrucci before eddie. This does not promote superiority for either, as they are both my 2 favorite guitarists. People have different likes and dislikes, and because of that, I don't put alot of faith into because someone influences more people they are better.
    ...and on the seventh day, god created Eddie! <br /><br /><a href="http://www.rosetears.com" target="_blank">http://www.rosetears.com</a>

  10. #10
    Romeo Delight
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    10.27.06 @ 08:28 AM
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    and I would also like to add the record sales don't equal greatness or ability, if that were the case then NSYNC would be greater than Van Halen
    ...and on the seventh day, god created Eddie! <br /><br /><a href="http://www.rosetears.com" target="_blank">http://www.rosetears.com</a>

  11. #11
    Romeo Delight
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    The funniest part about all of this is... People like us sit here arguing over whose the most influential guitar player, who has the most technique, who writes better songs, who has more God-given talent etc. and when it comes down to album sales and $ - rappers sell more records and make more $ than all of these guys combined.

  12. #12
    Hot For Teacher
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    NO ONE should be comparing VH and DT- it is like comparing apples and orangutans... 2 different galaxies in separate parts of the universe... what a pointless argument...

    next?
    zach sanders<br /><br />"My boy, we are pilgrims in an unholy land"

  13. #13
    Hot For Teacher
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    There aren't too many rappers out there, or in history who will sell more albums, or make more money than Eddie Van Halen. Rock is still the biggest seller out there. Further, not many rappers have long careers. Even if VH played their last show in 1998, 20 years is a hard number for any rapper to approach. There are exceptions, LLCool J has been around for 13-15 years, but not many. Also when did any rap artist have a huge tour. Most rappers do package tours, rarely by themselves.

  14. #14
    Romeo Delight
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    10.27.06 @ 08:28 AM
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    Who Cares if they make more money? I sure as hell don't. I would rather be broke doing my own thing true to myself, then be a millionaire doing something easy just because I can
    ...and on the seventh day, god created Eddie! <br /><br /><a href="http://www.rosetears.com" target="_blank">http://www.rosetears.com</a>

  15. #15
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    Albums sales and chart positions are great for simply knowing how popular an artist is and how popular they where at the time of each album release.. Sure Nsync sells millions and tops the charts. But remember, that is what they are desgined to do. That is the whole purpose of Nsync, Brittany and others! These are show biz kids who are passed of as musicians! They are bred, groomed and trained and then have the hotshot songwriters and choreographers brought in etc.. They have the media machine cranked up and they are on MTV 24/7, and I aint exaggerating. Every damn day kids are pounded over the head with these people!
    VH was a crazy hard rock/metal band coming outta Pasadena in 1977!!! There was no MTV till the very end of 1981! VH only had their music, some radio airplay and their live show to make it, thats it. No MTV, websites, commercials, etc..
    For VH to sell almost 70 MILLION albums is unreal.. And to fire off 12 consecutive multi-platinum albums from 78'-98', well goddamn, not even Aerosmith can claim that. They have 10 multi-platinum albums and they sure as hell werent consecutive! Plus all VH albums(with the exception of VH1- no.19 on the chart) cracked the Top 10, including 5 no. 1's!!
    For a group like VH to have multi-platinum success and chart success and have street cred and have the respect of their peers? Well, thats pretty rare dude...
    Especially for a band that made a lead singer change and sound change during their prime, closed the door on just about all their classic material live and NEVER resorted to bringing in outside songwriters on their studio albums... And they never became MTV tools either, even turning down MTV Unplugged despite the fact VH was one of the very first bands asked to do it!

 

 

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