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  1. #1
    5150 P1's Avatar
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    03.29.06 @ 01:41 PM
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    I have a question that I've wondered about for a long time and finally decided to register and ask my fellow fans.
    Let me first say that I am not trying to bash EVH, I'm just curious about this...
    Eddie has said several times that when he was younger and drinking, he was easily manipulated. Dave manipulated him, Sammy manipulated him, etc. Then, when he got sober Sammy and Dave could no longer manipulate him and that's what led to the break-ups in '96. So how does he explain what Ray Danniels did to him and the band? Wasn't that a textbook example of manipulation?
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  2. #2
    XTC man! homeunit's Avatar
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    09.05.15 @ 12:20 PM
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    Exactly P1!

    I think the story changed from being manipulated to just being the victim. I say piss or get off the pot.
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  3. #3
    Sinner's Swing! 79th and Sunset's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 12:35 PM
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    Premium Member
    The Ray Daniels thing was really weird. He was mainpulated for sure. But, who really knows , sounds to me like Daniels may have "scammed" the band. In other words, lied to them.

    Maybe Ed was trying to keep peace with his brother. Ray was his In-Law thru marriage I believe.

  4. #4
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    08.27.15 @ 02:07 AM
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    Donor

    Good point 79!! I was going to say basically the same thing...perhaps it's harder to see the "manipulation" that is going on if it's coming from your own family. Now that RD is out of the pic, as rumors have stated, perhaps Ed is truly running the ship and is learning things as he goes.

    Or perhaps he's just truly enjoying the time off with his son and wife.
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  5. #5
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 02:13 AM
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    Good question. I think we will find the answer when Van Halen does a 'Behind the Music' special on VH1.
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  6. #6
    Hot For Teacher
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    05.03.05 @ 09:18 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Raldo:
    Good question. I think we will find the answer when Van Halen does a 'Behind the Music' special on VH1.<hr></blockquote>


    ...well - we'll find out Eddie's "answer"

  7. #7
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    Eddie, like most recovering alcoholics, thought he had to be in control of everything, as opposed to being "out of control" for the 20 years he was drinking. Danniels was able to manipulate him by feeding on that need for control and letting Eddie believe he was in charge, while Danniels was the real power behind the curtain, so to speak.

    For example, Danniels was able to drive Van Hagar apart (a neccesity for him, since Sammy opposed him from day one)by feeding Eddie's ego..

    "It's your band, Eddie. You're the whole talent here. Sammy's just riding your coattails."

    This began to drive a wedge between Hagar and Eddie.

    A similar tactic was used by Danniels in the summer of 1996....

    "Eddie. Roth can't sing. You don't wanna go back, you want to go forward. You don't need him. The fans will understand..."

    Well, as it turned out, most of the fans did not understand. But in the end,something or someone made Eddie face the reality of Danniels manipulation. It sucks when you find out you have been used like that. Maybe half the reason for the delay, apart from legal bullshit, is Eddie being afraid to face the fans after becoming a tool of an even bigger "tool".
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  8. #8
    Eruption gabby gabbster's Avatar
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    12.01.17 @ 09:52 AM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by FORD:
    A similar tactic was used by Danniels in the summer of 1996....

    "Eddie. Roth can't sing. You don't wanna go back, you want to go forward. You don't need him. The fans will understand..."
    <hr></blockquote>


    Who know's what Danniels was really up to, but wanting to keep Roth out is pretty stupid...from a managerial/financial standpoint. If Danniels was such a money hungry bastard (as Sammy puts it) then why didn't he push for Dave? Wouldn't Dave bring in a whole shit load of money to the manager also?

    I can certainly see Eddie wanting to "move forward" before Danniels. What does Danniels care about musical integrity?

  9. #9
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    01.28.16 @ 01:53 PM
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    Roth probably played hard ball as much or moreso than Sammy in dealing contractually with Ray. Ray figures he'll bring in his own guy Gary, who he knows he can get the kind of contract he is never going to get with Dave involved. He figures a bigger part of a still very large pie would offset the fucking Dave would have put on him. He just didn't take into account that the pie wouldn't be as tasty to the buying public, as well several slices sliding out the backdoor via sites like Napster and the like.
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  10. #10
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    05.24.08 @ 02:20 AM
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    You might be surprised to know that Managers don't neccesaraly play a major role in what goes on in the studio rather just the overall running of the bands financial affairs.
    ie:live touring,liason with record company.

    They're probably likely to stay right out of what happens in the studio musically.


    Fact is Daniels wanted to roth reunion to happen big-time.
    He even went so far as to loosely aanounce that a greatest hits/reunion tour was gonna happen that christmas.

    I guess it's an interesting question even if it does encourage a behind the scenes type thing(it would be great fun to watch!)

    Everyone likes to be told what to do every now and again.
    It's hard thinking for yourself all the time. [img]graemlins/devil.gif[/img]

  11. #11
    Hang 'Em High Stuff No More's Avatar
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    01.08.05 @ 11:08 AM
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    Something else to consider - Dave probably wouldn't have granted Danniels a portion of the profits from the first six albums like Eddie did.

    IIRC, I believe Sammy played hardball to keep the three with him before Danniels came on board out of that deal.
    "Just once I'd like to do the right thing and not get punished for it."

  12. #12
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    10.05.17 @ 11:44 AM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by FORD:
    Eddie, like most recovering alcoholics, thought he had to be in control of everything, as opposed to being "out of control" for the 20 years he was drinking. Danniels was able to manipulate him by feeding on that need for control and letting Eddie believe he was in charge, while Danniels was the real power behind the curtain, so to speak.

    For example, Danniels was able to drive Van Hagar apart (a neccesity for him, since Sammy opposed him from day one)by feeding Eddie's ego..

    "It's your band, Eddie. You're the whole talent here. Sammy's just riding your coattails."

    This began to drive a wedge between Hagar and Eddie.

    A similar tactic was used by Danniels in the summer of 1996....

    "Eddie. Roth can't sing. You don't wanna go back, you want to go forward. You don't need him. The fans will understand..."

    Well, as it turned out, most of the fans did not understand. But in the end,something or someone made Eddie face the reality of Danniels manipulation. It sucks when you find out you have been used like that. Maybe half the reason for the delay, apart from legal bullshit, is Eddie being afraid to face the fans after becoming a tool of an even bigger "tool".
    <hr></blockquote>

    That is the most sensible thing I've ever heard you say, FORD.
    Your favorite band sucks.

  13. #13
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by gabby gabbster:

    Who know's what Danniels was really up to, but wanting to keep Roth out is pretty stupid...from a managerial/financial standpoint. If Danniels was such a money hungry bastard (as Sammy puts it) then why didn't he push for Dave? Wouldn't Dave bring in a whole shit load of money to the manager also?


    Of course. But Ray wanted to pull the strings. Sammy wasn't having any of that, which is why Danniels forced him out. And if Danniels couldn't control Sammy, he wouldn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of controlling Dave. Cherone, on the other hand, was already under Danniels' thumb, via a contract he signed with Extreme, and was more "agreeable" from Ray's viewpoint. Nuno Bettencourt had left Extreme, effectively ending the band, because of Danniels. This left Ray with a band whose singer he couldn't control, and a controllable singer without a band. For him, the solution was obvious.

    I can certainly see Eddie wanting to "move forward" before Danniels. What does Danniels care about musical integrity?

    Danniels knows nothing of ANY kind of integrity. It's all about money, power, and control to him.
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  14. #14
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    03.30.13 @ 09:28 AM
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    You nailed it FORD, good post.
    When Ed quit drinking and his head cleared, he assumed he was in full control, but it's not as simple as that, as Ray Daniels proved.
    Personally, I don't think there would have been much, if any lapse in Van Halen's music if Daniels hadn't come along and fed on the brother's need for some sort of direction in their lives, screwing everyone in the process.
    Once again FUCK RAY DANIELS!!

  15. #15
    Atomic Punk FORD's Avatar
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    10.22.17 @ 08:55 PM
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    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tribb:
    Once again FUCK RAY DANIELS!!<hr></blockquote>

    No, that's...

    Fuck
    Off
    Ray
    Danniels !!

    [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]
    Eat Us And Smile

    Welcome back, Van HALEN!!!!

    ...It's the BAND and Dave is really the cat that can front VH. He sang his ASS off and was really cool. No cheese here guys, this is filet Mignon! - Steve Lukather's comment after witnessing a Van HALEN 2007 rehearsal

    "What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears?"- 1 Samuel 15:14

 

 

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