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    Default What Role Did Jan Play In EVH's Understanding Of Music Theroy?

    Have you ever wondered to what degree Jan played in EVH's understanding of music structure?

    Eddie was practically a kid, when Van Halen I came out.

    The real genius in Van Halen's music isn't so much in it's complexity, nor is it in their musicianship; it's in the song's structure. This is not normal, nor is it accidental.

    I can still listen to a song, today, and cue in on different nuances, etc. Where did Ed get his knowledge of music structure from? He was born with his genius, yet someone had to coach him along the way.

    What role, if any, did Jan play in the structuring of early Van Halen music?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDL View Post
    Have you ever wondered to what degree Jan played in EVH's understanding of music structure?

    Eddie was practically a kid, when Van Halen I came out.

    The real genius in Van Halen's music isn't so much in it's complexity, nor is it in their musicianship; it's in the song's structure. This is not normal, nor is it accidental.

    I can still listen to a song, today, and cue in on different nuances, etc. Where did Ed get his knowledge of music structure from? He was born with his genius, yet someone had to coach him along the way.

    What role, if any, did Jan play in the structuring of early Van Halen music?
    I don't think he played any overt role in any of it.

    However, subliminally I'm sure Edward and Alex were influenced by their father's playing. How could they not have been?

    I know Ed has been quoted as saying some of the legato runs he did were inspired by his dad's playing on the clarinet. And Jan would regularly tap Alex to sit in with his jazz band when the drummer was unavailable for whatever reason.

    But as far as structuring the songs we know of as Van Halen I would guess he had no role in that.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    I don't think he played any overt role in any of it.

    However, subliminally I'm sure Edward and Alex were influenced by their father's playing. How could they not have been?

    I know Ed has been quoted as saying some of the legato runs he did were inspired by his dad's playing on the clarinet. And Jan would regularly tap Alex to sit in with his jazz band when the drummer was unavailable for whatever reason.

    But as far as structuring the songs we know of as Van Halen I would guess he had no role in that.
    I tend to think Ed and Al heard all that badass big band and jazz stuff and picked up on the whole massive large song ending style they have always put out there. As far as the song structure, most of it is pretty basic: intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, breakdown, verse, chorus, sonic ending...
    I'm sure Ted Templeman also had a hand in the structure of the songs. As far as nuances in Eds's playing, that comes from years of practice and the self genius of knowing exactly where to throw those nuances to sound cool or get the effect he was feeling at the time.
    Having said all that, Jan VanHalen no doubt had a major influence whether intentional or not only Ed and Al know...
    The clarinet is used in so many different ways to enhance or layer a piece music it's IMO it played a big part in his overall musical vocabulary.
    Last edited by evhintexas; 01.21.20 at 02:51 PM.
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    I think the way Al plays is heavily influenced by jazz drumming, so there is that for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Penis M.D. View Post
    I think the way Al plays is heavily influenced by jazz drumming, so there is that for sure.
    Yep. Al has spoken highly of his Pop and his jazz influence, as well as citing big band jazz legends Buddy Rich and Louie Bellson and jazz fusion legend Billy Cobham as being influences on his drumming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NDL View Post
    Have you ever wondered to what degree Jan played in EVH's understanding of music structure?

    Eddie was practically a kid, when Van Halen I came out.

    The real genius in Van Halen's music isn't so much in it's complexity, nor is it in their musicianship; it's in the song's structure. This is not normal, nor is it accidental.

    I can still listen to a song, today, and cue in on different nuances, etc. Where did Ed get his knowledge of music structure from? He was born with his genius, yet someone had to coach him along the way.

    What role, if any, did Jan play in the structuring of early Van Halen music?
    This is a great topic. It would be so cool if we ever got any in-depth info from Ed or Al
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

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    I wanted to add also, and this isn't to bag on hard/heavy music drummers in general...but as a non-trained musician, the stuff Al does with his ride in particular is frickin' amazing. Compared to someone like, I dunno, Mick Brown or Fred Coury, Matt Sorum, those guys don't have the "boogie"...Doesn't get the credit he deserves for the Van Halen sound....even a song that we all bag on "Feels so Good"...listen to his work on the ride. Amazing.

    Maybe I'll change my user name Al's Ride..

    Your pal,
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    All i know is that my parents really loved Jazz, and Van Halen was the only band i loved,
    that they actually thought was good.

    Things like ICM & So this is love, i wondered why do they GET this, but not AC/DC or Metallica.

    It's because VH had that swing, especially Ed & Al.

    As blinding as the solo in ICM is, my mom always said, "Well, Eddie sounds very musical.
    Not like those other bands you like."

    So i do think Jan had a profound effect on them.

    There is a boogie woogie, jazzy, kinda thing happening at times, though it's cranked
    through Marshalls & Ludwigs.
    Graver, Walking Ed, refugee from CVH & proud tone chaser...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Penis M.D. View Post
    I wanted to add also, and this isn't to bag on hard/heavy music drummers in general...but as a non-trained musician, the stuff Al does with his ride in particular is frickin' amazing. Compared to someone like, I dunno, Mick Brown or Fred Coury, Matt Sorum, those guys don't have the "boogie"...Doesn't get the credit he deserves for the Van Halen sound....even a song that we all bag on "Feels so Good"...listen to his work on the ride. Amazing.

    Maybe I'll change my user name Al's Ride..

    Your pal,
    Dr. Penis M.D.
    His cymbal work on FSG is the highlight of the tune. And specific examples of his great use of the ride that are among my favorites are during the solo in Mean Street, Hot For Teacher, and the solo in Loss Of Control.

    Two other examples that show off his "swing" and jazz feel, are Beautiful Girls and Take Your Whiskey Home. On both songs, the patterns on the ride are mimicking the pattern he plays on the hi hats.

    Oh another great example is the ride on Secrets. I guess I could go on and on...
    Last edited by JUNGLE DRUMMER; 01.21.20 at 09:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    I don't think he played any overt role in any of it.

    However, subliminally I'm sure Edward and Alex were influenced by their father's playing. How could they not have been?

    I know Ed has been quoted as saying some of the legato runs he did were inspired by his dad's playing on the clarinet. And Jan would regularly tap Alex to sit in with his jazz band when the drummer was unavailable for whatever reason.

    But as far as structuring the songs we know of as Van Halen I would guess he had no role in that.
    I appreciate your input. As for "legato," you learned me something; I am looking that term up as we speak...

    Quote Originally Posted by evhintexas View Post
    I tend to think Ed and Al heard all that badass big band and jazz stuff and picked up on the whole massive large song ending style they have always put out there. As far as the song structure, most of it is pretty basic: intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, breakdown, verse, chorus, sonic ending...
    I'm sure Ted Templeman also had a hand in the structure of the songs. As far as nuances in Eds's playing, that comes from years of practice and the self genius of knowing exactly where to throw those nuances to sound cool or get the effect he was feeling at the time.
    Having said all that, Jan VanHalen no doubt had a major influence whether intentional or not only Ed and Al know...
    The clarinet is used in so many different ways to enhance or layer a piece music it's IMO it played a big part in his overall musical vocabulary.
    Interesting perspective...Up until this point, I never gave pause to consider how the clarinet can be used - woven - into a song. Granted, my knowledge base is very limited; growing up, my Dad played jazz, but it was more along the lines of guitarists like Joe Pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Penis M.D. View Post
    I think the way Al plays is heavily influenced by jazz drumming, so there is that for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by JUNGLE DRUMMER View Post
    Yep. Al has spoken highly of his Pop and his jazz influence, as well as citing big band jazz legends Buddy Rich and Louie Bellson and jazz fusion legend Billy Cobham as being influences on his drumming.
    You're mentioning a whole new dynamic (at least to me); the next time I listen to a track, I will keep my ears attentive to Al's playing in light of his being influenced by jazz.

    Quote Originally Posted by evhintexas View Post
    This is a great topic. It would be so cool if we ever got any in-depth info from Ed or Al
    It is, and it's a shame Ed or Al haven't delved into this aspect of their history. Dave has, to some degree, although it usually comes in the form of a never ending ramble.

    ***

    Y'all mention jazz...you think that there'd have been a sequel to "Push Comes to Shove."
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    Was Eddie's sibling even brought up in the OP, thread title, etc?
    Just wondering if I had to reboot my phone again...
    Last edited by RRvh1; 01.21.20 at 11:38 PM.

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    Maybe a combination of nature and nurture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRvh1 View Post
    Was Eddie's sibling even brought up in the OP, thread title, etc?
    Just wondering if I had to reboot my phone again...
    You just cant help yourself can you? Why dont you just join a Bon Jovi forum? People there might actually respect you. Maybe...

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    I am sure he had an influence but Eddie's songwriting ability IMO is just something he was born with. Theory probably is there so that Eddie understands basic chordal structure due to him having lessons as a kid. I still don't believe his story that he didn't read music simply because if he won competitions, you have to sight read at those. You can't do something by ear that you never heard before. Anyway in my almost 51 years on this planet, 43 of them playing music I know one absolute truth. People are given gifts and music is a gift. Some were bestowed with a larger gift of music than others. Some people can play but they really need to work at it. Some people can play with technique but can't write a song to save their life. Some people can create melodies yet their fingers move like they are in concrete. Others simply no matter what can't do anything with an instrument in their hands.

    A guy like Eddie was simply given the gifts of timing, dexterity, songwriting and an ear. Thankfully he was in a household where one parent nurtured this instead of making him into a banker. Had he gone to school, he likely would have been taught the "right" way but then would have lost his individuality. Anyway take him compared to a guy like Yngwie. That guy can do certain things better than Eddie but can't write a song that hits the masses like Eddie.

    Its not even guitar. I used to major in trumpet for a few semesters in college. I was the best in my high school but I didn't have the best technique. I had great tone so I kind of was the Eric Clapton of trumpet. Anyway got to college and there were people who just had something I never had nor would ever have. They were touched by something that only grazed by me. Now conversely in high school I knew kids who practiced twice as hard as me yet they would never be as good as I. Its like that with really everything in life.

    Eddie definitely put in the work however I think he had some help. Whether in his genetic code or by a creator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RRvh1 View Post
    Was Eddie's sibling even brought up in the OP, thread title, etc?
    Just wondering if I had to reboot my phone again...
    No, you might want to switch to coffee though.
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